is it really important?

[The Brikk]

I was playing on filt tilt (0.05/0.10 cash game) the other day when this situation happened :

I was on the small blind with 33 and just to mixed it up a bit i decided to make a standard raise with 2 limpers. The first limpers called and the second one fold. the flop came K T 8 rainbow. I bet about 2/3 of the pot and the guy raise me three time my bet and i finally fold. I was pretty sure he was testing me but i decided to respect his move and fold.

My questions is : Is it really important to be able to add those kinds of play to move up in the lader or should i sticked to my own style and what's working for me???
And what you guys would of done differently???

Thanks!!!

The Brikk

[Rek]

In my opinion you did nothing wrong there. As you progress you need to mix it up a bit. There will be times when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar but I think it was Jennifer Harman who said if you are never caught bluffing you are not playing good poker.

Having said all that, at those stakes I am not sure it is too wise to play anything other than ABC poker

[oddsock]

You did nothing wrong - preflop you almost certainly had the best hand.

At that level I would have limped and hoped to catch a set. Sets are powerful hands at these levels because you will find that most players will happily throw it all in with top pair - few players will ever put you on 333 if you hit! The problem here is that you are out of position, so feel you must put in a continuation bet on the flop which you simply have to throw away when reraised. But it hasnt been in vain - unless you can put him on AK or better, then he is simply not respecting your betting - at this level it's a wonderful advantage to yourself - watch him hang himself!

[jstill]

fwiw Id always raise in this spot at NL50+ not sure how the more micro limits play...

really it just sucks to flop a set in an unraised pot, as it ends up as little more than a crap pot and u rarely get to stack someone as buidling the pot is a huge process, u can raise thin the field or build the pot and pick up a profitable c bet on most boards 3 ways...

after ur raised though you should usually fold without much thought ( again I dont know how this limit plays)... let me ask you this though.. what made you think this guy was "just testing you" you assume he just calls with good hands TP, 2 pair and sets ect? do u expect him to fold TP to a shove

this should probably go in the micros forum though not theory

[eMbAh]

I think you think about it the wrong way (not trying to insult you) I think you should think about why you raise the hand, from your perspective you want to raise 33 so the pot is bigger when you flop a set. From your opponents perspective you can have alot of things when you raise. I don't think you should bet 2/3 pot in a multiway pot in that situation. Lets say that the guy that raise you have KJ or KQ, he doesn't put you on much because if he did AK would be a possibility (if he was thinking he could be raising to know where he is but even then i think it would be a bad play) So if your opponents are really eager to play bad and go to the felt with KJ on a king high flop you just can't represent AK with your 33 because if he is unable to put you on AK it has no use to represent it. On the other hand your opponent could also have TT or 88 and put you on AK.

[JDalla]

move down to where they respect your raises

[kiddcheckers]

I don't think this play is worth it in a cash game. It just can't be plusev and screw game theory here.

Pumping the pot for a set doesn't make sense to me, as 1/8 you get a set and 7/8 you're oop w/ a board full of overs.


Also at .05/.10 aka no fold 'em. This is 100% not a profitable play. Learn the basics, move up, profit

[DarkMagus]

You make a small raise so that it's easier to stack someone when you flop a set and they have something. Think about the bet sizes you have to make.

4 people to a limped pot:

Flop: .40 in the pot. You flop a set, bet .40, get a caller.
Turn: 1.20 in the pot. you bet 1.20, and he calls.
River: 3.60 in the pot on the river. you bet 3.60 and he calls.

You have to make huge pot bets on every street, and you still only won $5 - half his stack. If you're lucky enough, he may have a good enough hand to raise, but this won't happen as often.

Now let's look at the same situation in a raised pot.

Flop: 1.60 in the pot. You flop a set, and bet 1.2 and get a call.
Turn: 4 in the pot. You bet 3 and he calls.
River: 11 in the pot. you Shove for 5.4 and he calls.

In the raised pot, you managed to stack somebody, and you only had to make 3/4 bets instead of pot bets, which probably gets your opponents to call with a wider range.

Another advantage to the raised pot is that if your opponent raises you even once post-flop, his raise is probably so big that he's committed to calling a push. In the limped pot, he can easily fold to a flop 3-bet.

Disadvantages of this are that you have to pay more to see a flop you'll often be missing, and you open yourself up to a preflop 3-bet which you'll likely have to fold to, losing some money. However, at this level, the other players rarely 3-bet, and play bad enough postflop that these disadvantages do not even come close to outwieghing the advantages of raising.

[eMbAh]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this play is worth it in a cash game. It just can't be plusev and screw game theory here.

Pumping the pot for a set doesn't make sense to me, as 1/8 you get a set and 7/8 you're oop w/ a board full of overs.


Also at .05/.10 aka no fold 'em. This is 100% not a profitable play. Learn the basics, move up, profit

[/ QUOTE ]

are you serious?

[kiddcheckers]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this play is worth it in a cash game. It just can't be plusev and screw game theory here.

Pumping the pot for a set doesn't make sense to me, as 1/8 you get a set and 7/8 you're oop w/ a board full of overs.


Also at .05/.10 aka no fold 'em. This is 100% not a profitable play. Learn the basics, move up, profit

[/ QUOTE ]

are you serious?

[/ QUOTE ]


What don't you understand here?

Your argument is so incredibly flawed it's ridiculous and you're wondering if I'm serious!?

You're raising for oop set value here? Then expecting limpers to have a have a hand they don't love enough to raise with but will stack off with?? Really?

It's tough to get max value for your hand when you're oop, and it's really tough to get it from people who aren't in love with their hand. Value w 3s is in stacking ak or qq, not 89 soooted.

And if you're expecting them not to fold when you hit, then you can't expect a c-bet to help.

This is a check.

But hey, that's just me, I like money.