I was in some place, but it wasn't zen -400 NL

Riina · #1 04-13-2007, 09:33 AM

Hi,

im gonna post some hands from my last session. I really felt a bit 'out there' all session and i think i have screwed up some hands. Im currently trying to resolve what i think is my biggest demon in poker: tilt. There is a lot of space between my A-game and my B/C/(D?)-game. Part of resolving these issues is making shameposts like these. That being said, i hope to find input in the biggest flaws you think have occurred. It helps a lot. Thanks,

This was in the first orbit first time UTG(no reads):

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$514) (6 handed) link

Hero ($394.00)
CO ($1.00)
Button ($633.84)
SB ($384.00)
BB ($399.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $16.00, CO calls $16.00, 2 folds, BB calls $12.00.

Flop: ($50.00) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $37.00, CO calls $37.00, BB folds.

Turn: ($124.00) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $88.00, Hero calls $88.00.

River: ($300.00) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $170.00, CO folds.

Final Pot: $470.00.
Results in white below:
Hero doesn't show.
Hero wins $170.00.


This actually was in the second orbit against the same villain in the previous hand. It somewhat influenced the way i played this one, since i hoped he was aggrevated a bit of our last hand.

Convertor doesn't work so manually:
Hero($438)
Villain ($965)

Im on the button with AhTh. I openraise to 16. SB folds, Villain pops to $43. I call.

Flop: 2c As Tc

Villain bets $78, I push.

In the next hand, villain had just sat down, but already appeared extremely fishy

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$514) (5 handed) link

Hero ($515.80)
SB ($806.36)
BB ($684.24)
UTG ($428.00)
CO ($479.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 folds, CO calls $4.00, Hero raises to $22.00, 2 folds, CO calls $18.00.

Flop: ($50.00) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $33.00, CO raises to $66.00, Hero calls $33.00.

Turn: ($182.00) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets $44.00, Hero raises to $88.00, CO calls $44.00.

River: ($358.00) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
check, check

Final Pot: $358.00.
Results in white below:
CO has Qd Jd (pair of Queens.)
Hero has Ts Qh (pair of Queens.)
CO wins $44.00.


The next hand. I dont know really what to say. About both of us. Villain is the same guy as in the first two hands but this was a pretty while later.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$514) (6 handed) link

Hero ($412.00)
SB ($800.36)
BB ($680.24)
UTG ($428.00)
CO ($656.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $16.00, SB raises to $40.00, 1 folds, Hero calls $26.00.

Flop: ($88.00) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
check, check

Turn: ($88.00) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $65.00, Hero calls $65.00.

River: ($218.00) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $175.00, SB calls $175.00.

Final Pot: $568.00.
Results in white below:
Hero has Tc Ad (card Ace.)
SB has 5c 5d (of a kind, Fives.)
SB wins $175.00.


I don't remember villain much anymore. Okayish i believed? I don't raise much out of SB when it is folded to me, so i mix up some hands like these in there with the range that i do it with.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$514) (6 handed) link

Hero ($425.70)
BB ($182.40)
UTG ($1.00)
CO ($894.69)
Button ($419.00)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $14.00, BB calls $12.00.

Flop: ($32.00) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $22.00, BB raises to $44.00, Hero raises all-in, BB calls.

Turn: ($362.20) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($362.20) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $362.20
Results in white below:
BB has 2d 4c (three of a kind, Fours.)
Hero has Tc 8s (pairs, Eights and Fours.)
BB wins $362.20.


The jury is still out on some decisions i a couple of hands inside my head. I hope you can shed some light in this matter. BTW, i never post these many hands simultaneauosly, so i hope i can be forgive for this one time [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

PS. Convertor doesn't seem to show when somebody checks?? Don't know why, but i think it should lead to no confusion.

Big_Jim · #2 04-13-2007, 09:42 AM

Hand 1: I'd usually just keep betting, but since you checked, super obvious shove.

Since you just called, check the river, or bet way smaller to induce bluffs. Any hand that calls that bet bets itself.

Hand 2: I just fold the flop sometimes. I don't like your turn raise size. I'd rather raise more, since if I'm raising, it's because I put him on a draw.

Hand 3: Raise or fold the turn. Real bad spot to try to look him up with A high. As played, obviously you bet.

Hand 4: Looks okay T is about where I'd draw the line for your kicker, here.

Neko · #3 04-13-2007, 12:37 PM

I'm a limidonk, but don't you really need to bet the turn in hand 1?

jj12 · #4 04-13-2007, 02:16 PM

check min raise in hand one would be so awesome.

RiverHebrew2 · #5 04-13-2007, 02:57 PM

Hand 1- I assume he's bluffing or he has T, so i like C/RAI on river personally for value from trips or bluff.
Hand 2- I rele love the idea of minraising the turn to slow the pot down and get you a cheap riv showdown, but you should have DEFINITEly raised more on the turn since he folds any hand but a set or KQ IMO to a strong raise. Your hand, based on his action, is behind by a little, but you have position so you can represent the K, so thats y i like a big raise.
Hand 3- FOLD pre... i like ur turn float and bet sizing but jus fold preflop ATo sux to a reraise, even in position
Hand 4- Shoving here is AWEFUL as the guy with this size stack never folds any 8 or any 4, and you only fold out like 55 or some other pocketpair like that. Flatcall and c a turn, and probably there you can fold since your hand sux if he continues to show strength.

Riina · #6 04-13-2007, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1- I assume he's bluffing or he has T, so i like C/RAI on river personally for value from trips or bluff.
Hand 2- I rele love the idea of minraising the turn to slow the pot down and get you a cheap riv showdown, but you should have DEFINITEly raised more on the turn since he folds any hand but a set or KQ IMO to a strong raise. Your hand, based on his action, is behind by a little, but you have position so you can represent the K, so thats y i like a big raise.
Hand 3- FOLD pre... i like ur turn float and bet sizing but jus fold preflop ATo sux to a reraise, even in position
Hand 4- Shoving here is AWEFUL as the guy with this size stack never folds any 8 or any 4, and you only fold out like 55 or some other pocketpair like that. Flatcall and c a turn, and probably there you can fold since your hand sux if he continues to show strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow...you make an analysis almost fully identical as i did myself. These were my sentiments exactly. Some additional
notes:

Hand2 (the unconverted one): everybody missed this one i guess lol [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I feel quite good about pushing on this flop given the circumstances. If he's aggrevated in a way from our last hand, he'll be tempted to call with a big Ace, hoping im pushing a draw and i won't get much value from other hands either way. Unless he hits of course, wich would trouble me probably with hefty reverse implied odds.

Hand 3: Although i use the minraise for potcontrol now and then i think indeed this is not the place to do it. I have to either:
-Raise a lot more. Try and make him fold by representing the king using my positional advantage
-Just call. Chances are that if he has a queen or a hand i beat, he will check the river anyway since the scarecard king hit on the turn.

Because of the fishyness of the opponent in question as it seemed i like the latter more than the first. Fish can make long calls with a queen, afraid of 'being bluffed', and i often think its wise to learn about their unique nuances to determine wether they can be pushed of a hand.

Hand 4: indeed i shouldve folded preflop. We were a bit in a raisingwar at times, and i guess i got a bit carried away. I don't think the turnfloat is really bad as his bet is either a flopped monster or a (semi)bluff because of his flopcheck. I still think its borderline though. That he called the riverbet honestly shocked me lol [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Hand 5: I also think this was an awful all-in for the reasons you stated. I am surprised the jury seems to be out on this so more thoughts are appreciated, cuz this seems pretty 'basic' and i like to know who's wrong and right?

This is not a wrap-up. These were my thoughts, im still very much interested in any insight from other posters. Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edit: missed hand 1. I think probably the best thing to do was to continue betting on the turn, giving him a chance to raise. As played, i'd like a river crse AI too, more than a turn crse where i can see players being able to fold a Q10s, J10, 109s they would certainly bet on the river if just called on the turn. Some bluffpotential too of course

Hoopster81 · #7 04-13-2007, 07:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand2 (the unconverted one): everybody missed this one i guess lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I like flop shove

Big_Jim · #8 04-13-2007, 08:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 4- Shoving here is AWEFUL as the guy with this size stack never folds any 8 or any 4, and you only fold out like 55 or some other pocketpair like that.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a bluff

foxfox1 · #9 04-13-2007, 09:44 PM

How would shoving in hand 4 not be a bluff Jim? Do we expect opponent to be looking us up with worse? Is 3 betting AI with TPNK BvB standard?

Big_Jim · #10 04-13-2007, 09:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How would shoving in hand 4 not be a bluff Jim?

[/ QUOTE ]
Just like hebrew said, he's not folding any 8.

The most likely 8s are 98, 87, 86(24 combos), and A8 . If he's never folding any of them, obviously we are +EV by a huge margin, vs his 8s.

Of course he could have a 4 as well, vs Most likely 4s are 45, and A4(16 combos), with other hands being much less likely.

So we're behind about 50/50, using just this range, and there's money in the pot.

Of course, he'll sometimes show up with other weird 4s and 8s/slowplayed overpair, but sometimes he'll stack off with 77/66 etc as well.

I think it's pretty close, but it's fun to gamble.