L@TB, Deep. I've read too many poker books. - Page 3

TheStandman · #21 03-30-2007, 03:49 PM

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In particular, Super System 1. It's been a few years but some things stuck, I guess. Anyway, the hand:

10/20nl @ Bike. Villain is a very young but very good, aggressive player that always buys in very deep every game he plays (Arie, as I'm sure it'll be asked, plays a lot at the 20/40nl Commerce game). He's very LAG pre-flop but pretty solid post-flop for the most part, with the occasional well-timed move mixed in. I bought in for 10k but have been getting hammered left and right and am down to like 7600 to start the hand. He covers.

3 limpers and he makes his standard 100 to go on the Button. I look downat 8,9o and make it 500. He's the only caller.

Flop: 8,T,Qr
I lead out for 700, he thinks for a little bit and makes it 2300. I weigh my options and shove.

Thoughts?

Kirk

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I understand that you shove but don't expect him to fold. He probably hit his set or 2 pair and he is likely never folding. Even if you have AA or KK he is very happy to call against this shove because if you hit your set you would probably not shove but call and push the turn/river. So even if he hit botton set (88) he would call but most likely i put him on a higher set (most likely TT) or maybe QQ (but i don't think so because with QQ he would raise like 2000 not 2300).

This is pretty -EV to play a hand this way and i could also push this flop at a lower where i can rebuy and rebuy and play all night and win it back and use my wrecked image to win some back when i play good again, but when you think about it's just wrong and folding is way better against a hit set (90 out of 100 times he hit his set).

TheStandman

TheWorstPlayer · #22 03-30-2007, 04:12 PM

Playing AA/KK like this is brutal except against the worst (and maybe the best) opponents. And yes, the straight is possible, but he won't put you on that. In his mind, you're repping "QQ and only QQ" is my guess. And he won't buy it. I expect you to get looked up by AA/KK here for sure if he has those hands and played them like this until now.

lapoker17 · #23 03-30-2007, 04:28 PM

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Playing AA/KK like this is brutal except against the worst (and maybe the best) opponents.

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twp have you read kirk's other posts? he's a psycho. i think people would stack off against him w AQ here easily - maybe some other crap too.

which btw is why i don't like this hand much. don't you ever have it kirk?

thatpfunk · #24 03-30-2007, 05:03 PM

"I am not repping "QQ and QQ only" as I would play AA and KK this fast there as well. In this particular hand, I actually liked my risk/reward ratio as, to my way of thinking at the time (good or bad), he's 6.5:1 against having flopped a set on me, and unless he has a set he can't call,"

if youre playing AA and KK this fast (which you are probably doing much more than you are with JJ) why cant he make a call with pr+gutshot in which case youre completely crushed?

if he never makes that play and call, i like the hand (i dont know if hes calling any 2suited broadway pf to your 3bet). but if the game plays wild enough and hes a good hand reader then very meh.

Kirkrrr · #25 03-30-2007, 05:29 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
Playing AA/KK like this is brutal except against the worst (and maybe the best) opponents.

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twp have you read kirk's other posts? he's a psycho. i think people would stack off against him w AQ here easily - maybe some other crap too.

which btw is why i don't like this hand much. don't you ever have it kirk?

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I, sir, am no psycho! And yes, I have it quite often, then I shove and they call and I win, but that's pretty boring and basic so why would I ever post those hands??

Kirk

Subfallen · #26 03-30-2007, 06:55 PM

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i cannot believe that out of all the sperm you were the fastest, truly mind boggling.

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Who said he had competition?

riverboatking · #27 03-30-2007, 09:27 PM

you think his dad only had one tadpole in the mayo?

TheStandman · #28 03-30-2007, 09:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Playing AA/KK like this is brutal except against the worst (and maybe the best) opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

twp have you read kirk's other posts? he's a psycho. i think people would stack off against him w AQ here easily - maybe some other crap too.

which btw is why i don't like this hand much. don't you ever have it kirk?

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I, sir, am no psycho! And yes, I have it quite often, then I shove and they call and I win, but that's pretty boring and basic so why would I ever post those hands??

Kirk

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To be honest, this is brilliant if you just keep the numbers right, but the question is, do you? I think most players don't use the non-exploitive range selection in such unique situations as i do and win day in day out and lose with strange hands like you had now.

But if you do play at that level, why ask us what to do in this situation?

But then again, even if you do apply non-exploitive range selection criteria, he did hit his set this time and you could even optimise that range selection further because he knows your hand, just fold.

aislephive · #29 03-31-2007, 12:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In particular, Super System 1. It's been a few years but some things stuck, I guess. Anyway, the hand:

10/20nl @ Bike. Villain is a very young but very good, aggressive player that always buys in very deep every game he plays (Arie, as I'm sure it'll be asked, plays a lot at the 20/40nl Commerce game). He's very LAG pre-flop but pretty solid post-flop for the most part, with the occasional well-timed move mixed in. I bought in for 10k but have been getting hammered left and right and am down to like 7600 to start the hand. He covers.

3 limpers and he makes his standard 100 to go on the Button. I look downat 8,9o and make it 500. He's the only caller.

Flop: 8,T,Qr
I lead out for 700, he thinks for a little bit and makes it 2300. I weigh my options and shove.

Thoughts?

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]

Having watched "Ari" a fair amount on LATB, I think he plays extremely solid and doesn't make that many moves, particularly postflop. So I'm really not a fan of this since at all, given how he plays, although recently he has loosened up a bit preflop, he still plays straightforward and borderline passive postflop, FWIW. He'll make some smallish bluffs like c-bets, etc, but I can't recall him making any bluff raises deep stacked in big pots or even getting out of line at all.

I'd like this against somebody like Corp Mike who is liable to have a huge range here. Also, this just seems really gross when you're 350bbs deep to get all in against this guy with bottom pair and a gutter.

Watching Thursday's show I saw this hand come up, interesting to see it unfold. Nice suckout. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

MYNAMEIZGREG · #30 03-31-2007, 03:35 AM

Kirk,

My problem with your logic about odds is that he is not raising this flop 100% of the time, so you cannot say well x of y times he doesn't have anything, because that is skewed since he is raising (since I am assumming he does not raise the flop 100% of the time). Odds like that would only apply for his range of calling your flop cbet.