Did I play this wrong?

canada_dry · #1 08-21-2006, 08:14 AM

Party 1 million guaranteed tourney. 2 hand of tourney. Already up 600 chips on first hand against same opponent (I flopped baby flush, and c/r flop, bet turn, he folded).

UTG+1 raise to 140, 5 callers. I'm in in SB with AJ hearts.

FLOP 8h 6h 3c

Raiser bets 750. Reraise to 1700. 1 fold.

I went all-in. BB folds. Original raiser folds. Villain (from first hand) calls, shows 9/9.

Turn and river blank. I'm left with 1200 in chips....

Comments appreciated.

#2 08-21-2006, 08:33 AM

I'm confused by the action.

Who is the one that calls your all-in? UTG+1 who raised PF, or someone else who reraised on the flop to 1700?

Also, what happened in the hand where you won 600 chips?

canada_dry · #3 08-21-2006, 08:40 AM

Post has been edited for clarification.

Beachman42 · #4 08-21-2006, 08:45 AM

Simple math problem. Pot is 3150 before you push, thus you are getting 3650 (all of villian's stack, not all of yours) on your push of ~1,000(?) and you make a flush ~38% of the time. Standard.

BTW, how did villian push 1,700 if he lost ~600 in the first hand?

Elverian · #5 08-21-2006, 08:46 AM

Calling an UTG +1 raise with AJ is not recommended. You need better than that to call, although your implied odds with that many callers may make it worth a look.

The semi bluff was not going to work against a strong bet and a reraise. You have to think you need to make the flush to win and that's 2-1 against. Although you may have been getting close to these odds:
a) Do you want to risk your tourney on a coin flip on the 2nd hand?
b) You may be against a set with the strength of the reraise, and therefore some of your outs are counterfeited against your opponents full house.

IMO the risk/reward was not there on the all-in, as there was no fold equity.

canada_dry · #6 08-21-2006, 08:54 AM

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BTW, how did villian push 1,700 if he lost ~600 in the first hand?

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Villain raised to 1700. I pushed 5600. He called remaining 2700.

Beachman42 · #7 08-21-2006, 08:57 AM

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Calling an UTG +1 raise with AJ is not recommended. You need better than that to call, although your implied odds with that many callers may make it worth a look.

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Sorry, but this is REALLY bad. There are already at least 3 in the pot if the BB also called, and 4 if he didn't. AJ suited is well worth a call here & many aggro players would consider re-raising with it to thin the field. Folding AJs here at the early stages of a MTT with huge implied odds and better than 4:1 immediate odds on a passive pf action is terrible.

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registrar · #8 08-21-2006, 09:05 AM

It's more helpful if you don't post the results. Trying to keep the results out of mind, villain has limped and then shown significant strength in a crowded pot, signalling at least an overpair. Semi-bluff draws are possible but I would expect a bigget bet. If I didn't know the results, I'd think I was more often looking at a set.

Anyway, it's very unlikely he's folding to your push and it's also unlikely anyone else is now calling without a set so, by pushing, you're generally heads up for the pot with either some flush outs, hoping the board doesn't pair, or flush and overcard outs. So it becomes mainly a question of maths: the odds of you making your draw against his range (5% draw, 25% overpair, 65% set, 5% misclick/bluff/nutter) agaisnt the money that will be the pot should you push and folds to him and he calls. If, like me, you're not a Maths whizz, then it can also be a question of style and mood: do you want to get all your chips in when you are very often behind but never very far behind?

Personally, I'd fold here. I don't mind getting in with the worst of it to build a stack but I'd like to think I have some FE, and you have none here, and I'd like to have a better read on the table. By the latter point I mean that if I am one of the better players, then I don't need to be taking risks to build a stack. If it looks like a rocky road ahead, then I might push here. There is a certain metagame value in pushing draws early and getting called. If the hand holds up.

However, third hand in, probably not. And I don't actually think you're getting the odds, assuming he never folds.

canada_dry · #9 08-21-2006, 09:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's more helpful if you don't post the results. Trying to keep the results out of mind, villain has limped and then shown significant strength in a crowded pot, signalling at least an overpair. Semi-bluff draws are possible but I would expect a bigget bet. If I didn't know the results, I'd think I was more often looking at a set.

Anyway, it's very unlikely he's folding to your push and it's also unlikely anyone else is now calling without a set so, by pushing, you're generally heads up for the pot with either some flush outs, hoping the board doesn't pair, or flush and overcard outs. So it becomes mainly a question of maths: the odds of you making your draw against his range (5% draw, 25% overpair, 65% set, 5% misclick/bluff/nutter) agaisnt the money that will be the pot should you push and folds to him and he calls. If, like me, you're not a Maths whizz, then it can also be a question of style and mood: do you want to get all your chips in when you are very often behind but never very far behind?

Personally, I'd fold here. I don't mind getting in with the worst of it to build a stack but I'd like to think I have some FE, and you have none here, and I'd like to have a better read on the table. By the latter point I mean that if I am one of the better players, then I don't need to be taking risks to build a stack. If it looks like a rocky road ahead, then I might push here. There is a certain metagame value in pushing draws early and getting called. If the hand holds up.

However, third hand in, probably not. And I don't actually think you're getting the odds, assuming he never folds.

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Very good answer ... and certainly something to consider. Part of me thought I could get a weak overpair or A8 to fold but apparently not. Villain probably figured I had a flush draw. I can't say I like his play, jeopardizing his tourney with two nines, or even risking 1/3 of his stack with a tenuous holding. After all, the original raiser could have pushed with AA etc..

Part of me also thought that if original raiser does push then I have the possibility of winning a giant pot. The "double-up quick or go home" mentality. I didn't think two nines could make the call, honestly.