$114 ITM - lets talk about metagame

suzzer99 · #1 07-10-2006, 10:00 PM

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t400 with t25 antes (3 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t5700)
SB (t4755)
BB (t3045)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero?

SNGPT likes a shove here on a reasonable range for tightish villains (44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+). But I'm sick of getting insta-called on the bubble by a fellow bigstack with QJo. I start to wonder if maybe some of them have a note on me for getting caught pushing crap at some point.

How much emphasis do you place on metagame for something like this? .1% $EV, .2% EV? I also have a theory that certain hands will be deemed "crap" by the average player, like this one. While a hand like J5o, which actually rates worse in a shove here, will be deemed "marginal". Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I really don't want that "pushes garbage" note.

suzzer99 · #2 07-10-2006, 10:14 PM

Well, further down in this game, it's pretty obvious I do NOT want to push into this guy:

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t400 with t25 antes (3 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Button (t2395)
Hero (t5925)
BB (t5180)

Preflop: Hero is in SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">Button folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t5900 (All-in)</font>, BB calls t4755 (All-in)

Flop: (t11330) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Turn: (t11330) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
River: (t11330) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Hero has 5d, Kh (a pair of Sixes)
BB has 3d, As (a pair of Sixes - Ace kicker)

AlphaWice · #3 07-10-2006, 10:15 PM

What, you cant fold?

octaveshift · #4 07-10-2006, 10:19 PM

With blinds of 400 and a stack of ~6k, is pushing really the best move? Not trying to be a dick, I'm asking because I am not pushing in these spots unless it's into a stack with less than 10xBB.

Are you jamming here because the shorty has folded, and you are looking to bleed the BB?

octaveshift · #5 07-10-2006, 10:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What, you cant fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's where I'm at for hand 1.

suzzer99 · #6 07-10-2006, 10:43 PM

Yes, of course I can fold. I'm just saying SNGPT doesn't mind it (let's assume villains are tight).

As far as shoving, first villain is *usually* going to be tighter than the 2nd, so pushing over him isn't such a bad option. You don't really want to pop it to 1200 and give 2nd villain a chance to shove, which leaves you right on the verge of being pot-comitted. That's just ugly unless you're sitting on a monster.

If the 10BB is bothering everyone so much, take 700 off villian #1's stack and give it to #2. SNGPT still likes a shove. The point is how much weight do you give to the metagame negatives of getting caught pushing a hand like this?

octaveshift · #7 07-10-2006, 10:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The point is how much weight do you give to the metagame negatives of getting caught pushing a hand like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite a bit. I like to preserve my FE as much as possible, and if I am ever caught jamming w/garbage, I generally slow down if at all possible.

Villains never seem to remember when I push w/KK, but they *ALWAYS* seem to remember when I push with 74.

schwza · #8 07-10-2006, 10:54 PM

so it's a good push if bb is folding KQ, A8, A6s? i'm pretty unconvinced.

also, how much does sngpt like it?

suzzer99 · #9 07-10-2006, 10:56 PM

.2% Try it.

schwza · #10 07-10-2006, 10:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
.2% Try it.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, that's not what i meant - it's not that i don't believe you. i meant that i was unconvinced that pushing is a good idea in real life because most villains are calling KQ and worse there.