Professional No-Limit Hold 'em study group

[Gelford]

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blind stealing definitely skews preflop raising strategy a bit. is that what you're getting at? and yeah you will have to get all in for 100bb some times if your opponents are any good. no free lunch anymore.

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here's a thought for you: it's been argued that in early position you should raise less to allow opponents to call with a wider range of hands (since you are raising with a small range of mostly premium hands). however, that needs to be balanced with SPR concerns, which the discussion i believe has ignored.

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Good example and if this is covered in the book, then it looks more and more promising.

Tho the above line of thought is and always have been against my own practice, If my premiums are not getting action, I don't like to balance by charging less, but I prefer to balance by widening my range. (Thus respecting the SPR as you say, and actually if this tends to be ignored, I am surprised)


And word on the dungeon ! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (A nice place to be)

[Matt Flynn]

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Tho the above line of thought is and always have been against my own practice, If my premiums are not getting action, I don't like to balance by charging less, but I prefer to balance by widening my range. (Thus respecting the SPR as you say, and actually if this tends to be ignored, I am surprised)

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i like your style.

we don't discuss range balancing in volume 1, but i've been working on that for volume 2.

[Gelford]

Actually there is one thing, that I am having difficulties with and I hope you will cover.

Defending from the blinds ... I have a well defined range that I will don't mind taking to the felt pf and a well defined range of air, both that I will 3bet. (Both opponent dependent)

But it is all the in between hands that might warrant a call, but then again perhaps not ... all in all meh. (Btw, I might be bordering on turning this thread into a well ... hmm, not my intention, so answering by saying this is in vol 1 or planned for vol x is fine [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[Matt Flynn]

New book review thread up at Books/Publications:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...=0#Post11329671

[Marlow]

Study group is an excellent idea.

I never play lower than .5-1, and this is the first time I've ever been in this forum. I strongly recommend giving folks in the SSNL and the MSNL forum a heads-up. Just blind luck that I saw this.

Also, why not have a separate forum just for the book? This would make so much more sense than confining it to one giganto thread.

[Jzo19]

bump (now that ppl are getting the book)

alright quick question i have 76s co in a 6 handed game folded to me , btton and blinds are tight and generally ill probably get one caller (with a standard 3 or 4bb raise if we're HU) then my SPR would be something like 10 or 11 which is generally good for draws espcially since im trying to steal

but lets say im the CO and the button/blinds are loose should i still raise or should i avoid raising to keep my SPR at a fav number ...

[Check_The_Nuts]

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So you prefer going the SSNL raise of 4xbb+limpers instead of just pot pot pot ?


but since you are targeting the blinds more than anything in 6max, will going broke once in a while with an overpair vs. giving the blinds a better price (thus allowing them to stay tight) really be a good trade off.

Assumes vanilla 2+2 tags on your left, in other words people what you feel are worse then you, when playing with wide ranges .... so in this scenario, do we have a case, where you might want to only make 3xbb in order to force them to open

Does your book cover the above btw ??? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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hi gelford thanks for the praise in the other post!

i think i need a couple glasses of wine to understand your post here. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

blind stealing definitely skews preflop raising strategy a bit. is that what you're getting at? and yeah you will have to get all in for 100bb some times if your opponents are any good. no free lunch anymore.

here's a thought for you: it's been argued that in early position you should raise less to allow opponents to call with a wider range of hands (since you are raising with a small range of mostly premium hands). however, that needs to be balanced with SPR concerns, which the discussion i believe has ignored.

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Matt, about the raising smaller when OOP. I don't like this idea. Mostly because you need to force your opponents to play more predictably when you are OOP. If you raise only a small amount it makes it much cheaper and as a result easier IMO to float you. This is of course fine if your delt QQ+ every hadn but when you have AK and whiff its probably a good thing if the guy folds his unimproved QJ/KQo on the flop once in a while because its rlly difficult to show down ur hand if he calls.

The main reason I don't think this is a good idea is that from personal experience I found that when RR'ing out of the blinds with a somewhat large range (AJs+/AQo+/KQ+/TT+) its noticably harder to be profitable if you raise just pot sized. Which is rlly weird IMO.

For example, if you raise in EP to 2BB and button calls, blinds fold. Flop comes low 259r and you hold AK. Your pretty vulnerable to a flop raise/flop float here. Also the pot will probably have a tendency to go multiway which is probably not good because ur reltiave position is bad and ur likely not raising good multiway pot hands like SCs/pocket pairs.

[danny8]

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bump (now that ppl are getting the book)

alright quick question i have 76s co in a 6 handed game folded to me , btton and blinds are tight and generally ill probably get one caller (with a standard 3 or 4bb raise if we're HU) then my SPR would be something like 10 or 11 which is generally good for draws espcially since im trying to steal

but lets say im the CO and the button/blinds are loose should i still raise or should i avoid raising to keep my SPR at a fav number ...

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assuming you have 100bb stacks... you can minraise to 2bb, you'll have an SPR of ~12 for 2 callers, or ~16 if they all call. that seems to work out pretty well.

[Check_The_Nuts]

if the button+both blinds were loose and quite bad, say 40-50% VPIP range and heavily defended their blinds. Then its probably safe to assume they are also passive preflop. I would think limping CO there would be optimal simply because all your doing is inflating the pot with a drawing hand. Esp. if they don't notice you limp your weak hands and raise ur strong ones.

I think holding QQ in that spot where button+both blinds are highly likely to call is very interesting. It seems like matt would argue that limping is optimal here (assuming all 3 ppl will call >80% of the time).

[Matt Flynn]

[ QUOTE ]
bump (now that ppl are getting the book)

alright quick question i have 76s co in a 6 handed game folded to me , btton and blinds are tight and generally ill probably get one caller (with a standard 3 or 4bb raise if we're HU) then my SPR would be something like 10 or 11 which is generally good for draws espcially since im trying to steal

but lets say im the CO and the button/blinds are loose should i still raise or should i avoid raising to keep my SPR at a fav number ...

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figure out how you expect to make a profit from the hand. if you can expect one caller, then you better be able to win most of the games of chicken when everyone misses.

if you can expect to take down the blinds often, then raise.

if you're working solely to stack someone, you don't have sufficient implied odds.