OT: Sngs on Ongame

[vers]

It's 3 minute levels on FTP as well. They are definitely beatable by the sounds of it but the software is teh suz0r.

[Fausto50]

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It's 3 minute levels on FTP as well. They are definitely beatable by the sounds of it but the software is teh suz0r.

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True, but the blinds increase steeply on Ongame, unlike on FT were they creep up gradually. The average 10-man turbo lasts arround 28mins.

There's no arguing that this helps anyone with a good knowledge of ICM, but it leaves very little time for the donks to donk off their stack to you/each other. Another side effect is that the extremely rapidly escalating blinds will actually turn what are wrong plays (at low blind levels) into right ones (i.e. stacking off with AJ vs 55), thus reducing the gap between good and bad players.

Also, expect the constant (as in at least once every couple hours) software freezes and magical table disappearances to cost you quite a bit.

Last, but not least, up to the 30$ the players are major calltards. This will force you to tighten up your pushing range, something easier said than done given the 3min blind levels.
I don't know about you, but I'd much rather be able to bully weak players on the bubble than constantly have to survive 4-way all-ins mid-game with my semi-premiums.
Expect your average finish position to go down by at least 1 rank, and your bubble % to skyrocket.

[The blackjacker]

I have also noticed that they are calltards or what you called them. However of you have like 5 bb, don't you have to push alot anyways.

I guess it's only to change strategy a little bit.

Maybe the regular 8 min sngs there will be much more profitable then, if they play so bad I mean. Lots of time for you to get a decent hand.

[Fausto50]

You do have to push a lot. The problem is that when the whole table's calling (and overcalling) range is 22+, Ax+, KT+ and even random crap, pushing anything but really strong hands in early/middle position becomes suicidal. This is compounded by the fact that bigger stacks will limp/call litterally every hand, making every push an almost guaranteed showdown . And, with 3 min blinds and slow acting players, 5bb stack happens really quickly (quite often in 2-3 orbits).

I do agree that the regular speed sngs, although comparably slightly faster than on other sites, should be quite profitable given the fishy player base.

[The blackjacker]

Allright so they are sometimes makeing good calls. So you don't push the worst crap. But I guess when you do hit your hands you will get paid of I suppose. And be a favorite sometimes with K5 Q3 and crap like that.

Do you have to call with like AT and stuff earlier to double up on the retards limp calling with anything?

Feels like there is a lot to gain on reads in this game.

And last you think it's better value in other games against "better" players, who don't call with like Q3 on the bb? I mean real bad player usually means good profit if you can exploit it correctly.

[donkeykong2]

bad players calls can theoretically cost both envolved players money and let everybody else gain because of the bustout. it is really annoying if someone calls with 22 when 4 players are left and you both have an average stack.

[Fausto50]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that those sngs are unbeatable because the players are too bad (i.e. I don't suffer from the "moving up where they will respect my raises" syndrome). I just feel that Ongame's 3mins turbos may not be the most +EV for a good player.

I feel that I should state that I'm a winning (although certainly still leaky) player, with an average ROI of arround 13% at the 10s and 20s turbos over a 9k games sample size (6 months/several sites, as I've been bonus whoring). And I certainly know my ICM pretty well.

However, what I was trying to say was that since:
1) As donkeykong2 correctly stated it, sngs are a unique case where bad players can spew both their EV and yours (especially so on the bubble)
2) The players will call too wide for you to be able to push much more than your fair share, but not wide enough that you are really ahead with your marginal hands

-> At least part of the strategical advantage a good player should get at high blinds levels is negated.

Thus, in this situation your advantage will come from getting paid off when you do hit your hands, as you said.
But, IMO, the extremely fast blinds increase will lead to having fewer such occasions, and spending more time in the situation where your advantage is partly negated by overly loose players.

To illustrate my point, as a competent player, which situation would you rather find yourself in on the bubble:
A- Competing against 3 weak-tight players with equally matched stacks
B- Competing against 3 loose callers with bigger stacks

If you anwered A, you might not want to play on Ongame at all.

To conclude:
Yes, Ongame's 3min turbo sngs are definitely beatable, as are every low/mid-buyin sngs with less than 30% rake on all sites.
Yes, getting reads, adapting your push/call ranges, value betting them to death and generally tailoring your strategy are key in doing so.
No, I still don't think they are the most +EV for a competent player (even taking into account hourly rate instead of ROI).

And since OP's question was whether he should move to Ongame full time or not, I feel like this last point is key.

[Pedro Brazil]

I understand when people complain about loose callers. I get pissed too. But you have to consider is that they call among therselves too, busting each other which is nice.

[opertiona]

Can anyone tell me how long it roughly takes to play 50 $50 stts on this network 4 tabling. 10% of these being turbo and the rest 8 minute blind frames.

[Scotty_12]

It would take you probably 7-10 hours ... the regular sngs can sometimes last FOREVER