Clicking speed, auto actions and online "tells"

[AbZurrrd]

This has been discussed in a lot of cheap-ass Internet poker books, but I'd like your opinion in the special case of low-limit HE, since weak players may overuse them and give out some information about their hands (this is player dependent, so I'll assume here the guy seems pretty weak)

1. Automatic Actions - Preflop

We all multi-table and auto-folding a hand when in EP & MP for instance is something I often do. Is this OK, or do you think it "tightens up" your image? (I don't do it in the CO, Button or in the blinds, looking for possibilities to steal depending on neighbors)

Next, in my short experience, I've seen plenty of insta-raises preflop, and it has always been AA thru QQ or sometime jacks (compared to other great hands like AK), do you agree? I mean, is it usually correct to fold the flop if unimproved when you noticed that PF?

Same goes for auto-call...apparently the trend is in the offsuit broadway and suited connectors range. Or am I dreaming?

2. On the flop and latter streets

Is the correlation between an auto-call and a drawing hand (on a relatively highly connected flop) strong enough to make this assumption?

This could be a good opportunity to steal on the river if you were yourself on a sort of draw (?)

3. Bluffing

At $1/$2 and lower, is it your experience that a good player had used the auto-raise option to represent a strong hand?

Conversely, would you try it yourself?

4. Beyond the auto-actions

Did you guys learn something valuable regarding the clicking speed of your opponents? Sam Fahra and other good players count in their hand before acting, but online...I never know what to think when a guy takes forever to decide. He may be on another table, or on the phone, or getting a bj from some hooker. So should I completely dismiss any clicking tell?

[lautzutao]

betting speed is completely useless at these limits imo. People have crappy internet connections, or really aren't paying attention to the games at all more than likely when these "tells" occur.

Autocallers wouldn't change the way I bet at all. It just means they're lazy calling stations.

[Xhad]

Any kind of tell at these stakes (including timing tells) can be useful, provided you don't go overboard (as in, don't fold an overpair in a giant pot based solely on a timing tell, and don't 3bet-bluff because you think a tell means a bluffraise).

If someone bets as fast as humanly possible do not fold in marginal spots as this is often an attempt to intimidate you out of a hand (but sometimes it really is a very strong hand).

If someone takes forever to call it often means either a monster or a very weak hand. So be more inclined to bluff on the next round, but less likely to bet in WA/WB situations where you fear a checkraise.

Using the autofold buttons for preflop isn't a big deal, no one notices. Personally I use autofold any time there is a bet and I know I'm out of a hand, but never the autobet or autoraise buttons.

If someone nearly times out and bets, that's usually a show of strength. Be careful.

[AbZurrrd]

I agree that the EXTREME timings usually prove Caro's advice right (strong means weak / weak means strong). I think that at these stakes we deal with the level-0 of bluffing. Which is already a nice +EV. All I'm asking for [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

lol.

auto click = watching porn.
fast click = watching exciting tv show that you wanna get back to fast.
slow click = watching boring tv show and drifting off.

thats my reads.

[akak]

I was probably thinking about this topic at the same time you were posting this. Well, not exactly the getting tells aspect.

I have a hunch that if you were the pfr in EP and you hit your hand on the flop, pausing for a second or two makes it more likely that fish after you will call (if you want that). I think a quick bet has the effect of scaring them off, and a pause has the effect of making them think you might be "bluffing".

I agree with most of you guys that basing tells off of timing isn't the best idea, but I think there are ways to manipulate your timing that are +EV.

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with most of you guys that basing tells off of timing isn't the best idea, but I think there are ways to manipulate your timing that are +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could spend that energy learning to play cards.

[Marquis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with most of you guys that basing tells off of timing isn't the best idea, but I think there are ways to manipulate your timing that are +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could spend that energy learning to play cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tells aren't part of poker? I don't get it.

[kerowo]

On-line tells are not worth the time to try and pickup because the person isn't under direct observation, but is being observed though a medium that itself can mess with the observation. Especially if you have never played the guy before, which is going to be he case more often than not at the micros. Think of it as a regular read, before you can base a decision on it you need to see it several times. I'm saying you'd be better off taking better notes on how someone plays than trying to time their plays.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
On-line tells are not worth the time to try and pickup because the person isn't under direct observation, but is being observed though a medium that itself can mess with the observation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well expressed, kerowo.

This timing-tells question comes up about every 6-8 weeks. OP's question as to how Hero can use his own timing to his advantage puts a slightly new tweak on it, but not really much. Here's something that occurred to me as I was reading this:

Your timing at an online table isn't going to do much for you, but if you ever play live having spent your time practicing ALWAYS TAKING THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO MAKE A DECISION will be an advantage for you at the table. Players seem to get a little freaked out live when you don't seem to be freaked out.

Something else that's not said often enough is that in most situations where you feel yourself taking longer than usual to make your decision, the decision is probably so close that it doesn't matter a whole lot what you do so figure out some system based on your hole cards to make your 50/50 decision for you and go with that.