chaostracize's loc: - out of my jurisdiction

[Leader]

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I am happy to see "Coaching", but not "Coaching, see Profile; "Selling T$", but not "Selling T$, see T$Sales"; etc.

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This seems to be the traditional compromise on this issue, and I think it's perfectly acceptable.

Whatever the consensus is, I think posters should be made aware of it.

Daryn,

As to the argument that this hurts 2+2, I disagree for a few reasons. First, very few people if any who advertise in there locating could afford to advertise on 2+2 or would even be willing to should they not be able to use their location. Second, these ads help to build small poker related business, which as they grow will consider buying ads on 2+2. Finally, the effectiveness of the ads is related to both the frequency and the quality of the advertisers posts. If these ads hurt 2+2 advertising or mildly annoy certain posters, I think it's minimized by the positive effects to the extent that it's not worth it to offend some very good posters by forcing them to change their location.

[nation]

i'm one of the guys with coaching in my location so i can't really comment, but i'd really like a decision soon so i don't feel like i'm breaking rules.

[Mike Haven]

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As I said when this was discussed recently, I don't have a problem with people putting an ad as their location. If it was up to me anything but scamy stuff would be allowed. However, if there's going to be a rule against advertising, I think it should be clear what is and isn't allowed both to the mods and to the posters. I'd suggest whatever decision is made be posted in ATF so that when posters violate the rule they can be pointed there.

Edit: maybe there should be a thread before we make a decision asking whether people are annoyed by ad locations

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Imo, the difference between blatantly asking readers to read your Profile or look at a website, and more subtly telling readers your "occupation", whether or not there are full details in your Profile, is where the line should be drawn.

I am happy to see "Coaching", but not "Coaching, see Profile; "Selling T$", but not "Selling T$, see T$Sales"; etc.

Your own Location of "Learning and teaching the game" is a good example of the subtle advert that I would be happy to allow, if I had the choice.

When it comes to non-profit-making matters, like referring people to an ad-free blog, I regard the above "rule" as a catch-all, admittedly, perhaps, more in the interests of moderators, in that we don't have to check out the blog to see if it is ad-free, and remaining so; and particularly so that other and new members don't see "see Profile" in Locations and use such references themselves, causing a knock-on effect and increasing moderators' workloads by them having to deal with nitty arguments as to whether or not profit and advertising is involved.

There are numerous "clever" Locations used by readers, so I would think we would all prefer to have to spend no more than one second reading them and saying to ourselves "ok", or "not ok - includes link", than having to go though some convoluted assessment procedure. Very little harm of any real consequence would result from this basic method of dealing with Location text, and is really how we have been dealing with it from the off.

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I think I would also add, "no requests for pm's" to "no links".

After I wrote my earlier post, one of the first Locs I saw was Rika's, in which he had written something like "Buying T$ - please pm me". I felt I should change that to "Buying T$", which, although it doesn't make any difference to the gist of what he was saying, might stop others from arguing they could say "Rakeback - pm me", or whatever might be far more unacceptable to us.

[citanul]

Leader,

the idea that they couldn't afford it is ridiculous, or at least when we have a good coaching directory will be. people are charging >$100/hr on avg for coaching, which means that omg, like 15 minutes of their coaching time goes to pay for one ad.

[ahnuld]

meh. those are the best strat. posters and I feel if they post alot and give their time in the strat. forums it should be allowed to slide. Guys who dont make any strat. posts and strictly use 2+2 for self-promotion shouldnt be allowed. That makes things really inconsistent I know, but it wouldnt really be hard to tell who would fall into which category.

[daryn]

leader,

another very bad argument. that's like saying stealing music is ok because the people who steal it couldn't afford it anyway, or wouldn't buy it.

[Nick B.]

What if my location said - Now pming, coach me.

[Leader]

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Leader,

the idea that they couldn't afford it is ridiculous, or at least when we have a good coaching directory will be. people are charging >$100/hr on avg for coaching, which means that omg, like 15 minutes of their coaching time goes to pay for one ad.

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Well I wasn't referring just to coaching. Most coaches could afford a $25 ad or even $200 ad. The problem is that if the price for the top is anything close to that there'll be a line a mile long for the spot unless the list is basically hidden and gets little traffic. If you raise the price in relation to demand, it will be far to expensive for coaches like me to buy the higher slots as I don't charge anything close to 100/hour. Also in the end, I don't think allowing location ads reduces the likelihood that coaches will purchase spots on the list.

I'm not trying to paint coaches or bloggers as victims here. They certainly aren't entitled to advertise in there location here. I just think the benefits out way the annoyances.

[Leader]

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leader,

another very bad argument. that's like saying stealing music is ok because the people who steal it couldn't afford it anyway, or wouldn't buy it.

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I feel the situations are different as location advertising is different then the ads 2+2 sells. Seems to me it's more like walking around with a promotional t-shirt. We have the right to make a dress code, but I don't think it's worth it.

[daryn]

what are you talking about? are we having the same conversation here?

2+2 sells ads, therefore any ad that i put in my location is taking away ad revenue from 2+2.