showdown

[iversonian]

1/2 NL. Lunatic bets all in into a T84 flop, player B calls him (putting himself all in), and I overcall with T9, knowing that player B may call with any pair. Turn and river are blanks, and player B shows a ten, beating lunatic's hand. The kicker will determine the winner here. Some history: player B and his friend have been showing down in this manner for a while now and nobody at the table has yet been challenged to show both cards involuntarily at showdown. I sit there and I wait for him to show his kicker. He tells me, show me your hand now. I ask, what's your kicker? And then he starts to get angry and hostile, like, "I showed you my hand, but you don't want to show yours? Why do you need to see my kicker?, etc." Now, don't need any help figuring out what the rules say about showing down hands, and neither did the dealer. But how do you think I should have responded?

[steamraise]

Show your ten and wait for him to show his kicker?

[chucky]

I am amazed by the inability of people to table their hands in a reasonable fashion. In my limited live experience I have not seen these problems occur at my tables, but I guess tabling cards is a major issue. Really what is the cost to you to turn over your cards during showdown. If the guy wants to be a jerk let him.

[ATrebek]

One card is not a hand, even if the other card doesn't play. Both cards face up and on the table ftw. I would wait - I don't want to show my cards here if I don't have to.

[Sevenfold]

I don't look at the player at all. I simply ask the dealer what his final hand is.

There is no reason that he should not have to show his hand first. (Since he had done this type of thing before).

However: If the lunatic showed a 10, I'd insta-flip my hand over and let him decide what he wanted to do.

[pfapfap]

He's been doing it with a friend and nobody has suggested to them that they shouldn't do that. Suddenly you become a nit and don't understand that they may feel a bit blindsided.

Why does this have to be a game of chicken? Why can't you simply table your hand? If you win, great, good range read on the guy. If he mucks, obviously his kicker is worse than yours and doesn't pair the board. You want to continue making money off of him, right? Why antagonize him? As to others, anybody who is smart enough to even care about your hand could piece together something reasonable if he showed and you folded. I see nothing to gain by holding up the game here. What do you have to prove and to whom?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
In my limited live experience I have not seen these problems occur at my tables,

[/ QUOTE ]

Guve it time. You'll see how annoying it is to watch 2 people do this over a small pot. Eventually, you'll just call that you want to see all hands just to get the hand over with.

b

[bernie]

Just flip your friggin' cards over already. If you beat it, he played a crap kick. Does it really matter what his kicker is at that point whether it's T7 or T3? The point is made w/o seeing his actual kicker.

Also, if you flip your hand, there is a possibility he may misread your hand and think you have T8(2 pair) and maybe fold a better kicker. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

b

[Wyman]

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 NL.


[/ QUOTE ]
Answer 1: Just flip your cards. It's 1/2 NL.

[ QUOTE ]
He tells me, show me your hand now. I ask, what's your kicker? And then he starts to get angry and hostile, like, "I showed you my hand, but you don't want to show yours? Why do you need to see my kicker?, etc." Now, don't need any help figuring out what the rules say about showing down hands, and neither did the dealer. But how do you think I should have responded?

[/ QUOTE ]
Answer 2: Do anything for maximum F-you effect. As long as it doesn't screw up an awesome table dynamic, tilting a player (hard) whose pride is going to make him chip dump to you (and everyone else) is a good thing. If it screws up table dynamic in the short term, this could still be ok, since the angry guy (+ friend) will likely not play very long and then the whole table can laugh about it.

Unless you're feeling really confrontational though, I'd just flip my cards. I won't call you a nit for not doing it though.

[pa3lsvt]

I nit it up here by telling the dealer I won't show my cards until he properly tables his hand, emphasis on *properly*. I'd even go to the point of invoking IWTSTH, but keep in mind that you risk losing the pot if he mucks a kicker better than a 9 (you invoking IWTSTH in this case keep his hand live even if he mucks).

This creates some good implied tilt odds on future hands. Keep in mind that Player B will likely start playing back at you extra hard, so make sure your future hands with him have good showdown value and don't run any bluffs on him.

I don't really care what his kicker is at this point - either he beats my 9 or he doesn't - but I do think there is good value in knocking Player B off his Zen, especially if he's been engaging in douchbaggery to this point (like showing one card at showdown).

I can probably pull this off without pissing off the rest of the table, as I'm usually a very polite and helpful player. I have an added advantage of wearing an iPod at the table, so if he starts jawing at me I can just turn the volume up.

If Player B is a clear fish I might have second thoughts and just table my damn hand though, as I don't want to chase an ATM away.