Flopped 4th set.

[Christian_Peters]

As played, I'm doing any thing I can to get this turn capped.

[milesdyson]

flop check is bad because of the line-up, really. it is not terrible, but you should bet with two tight limpers last to act.

turn is a call and it isn't very close.

[Xylocain]

Yes, Fantam , was on it and I think Miles got the whole hand. EV between c/r and betting the flop isnt that different but betting is clearly preferable.

In the actual hand I 3-bet turn and I think that is a much worse mistake than the failed c/r.

Raising results in driving out MP1 which would provide the BB that raising would get me by MP3 calling the 3-bet.

What is MP3 calling range, I ruled out AA, KK, QQ, set, AX, Ax and FDs.. All of those would raised PF or bet flop.

That leaves pretty much KQ, JT and JJ. Of those only JT call the 3-bet the rest of his range is capping like there is no tomorrow. In short, regardless of flop action turn is a call and its not close at all. I have to fix that leak.

[Fadook]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, Fadook, was on it

[/ QUOTE ]

I was "on it" without even posting? Damn, i got serious skills.

[Xylocain]

I spread [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] lightly


FMP

[CrMenace]

[ QUOTE ]
... actually what bugged my about the hand was getting raised on this board by a nit when an off suit J hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, listen, this plays out totally different if you bet the flop. Who the hell knows what villain has now -- do you actulaly expect people to act normally when you don't play your hands straightforwardly?

So now this could be any J. He's actually quite aggro post flop... probably weak/tight actually and so has a decently strong J or better. Since we don't know what to do now call down.

[milesdyson]

who knows what villain has now? are you serious? supertight player overlimps two others preflop and checks AT6 flop. turn J gets bet and called, and now he raises. he doesn't have QJ or KJ. he doesn't have Ax. he has JJ, JT or KQ pretty much all the time. obviously betting the flop changes the hand, but almost everyone just flat out ignored the turn action as if it were less important than the flop play. not 3-betting the turn is so much more important than betting the flop.

[Xylocain]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[CrMenace]

I don't know, Miles. No one bet an a-high flop. Villain isn't super-tight with 12.5% VPIP. He's super aggro post flop. KJ gives him a really attractive hand.

[Xylocain]

My thinking is, you don't get that much tighter than 12.5. And vil isn't superaggro at all. He raised once and fit-or-folded 4 times in 40 hands.