AA in capped pot, what's your line on scary flop? - Page 2

Xhad · #11 08-31-2007, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call down after the flop 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any reads on villain? - his capping range and yours may not be the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if he caps hands worse than what we would cap, how many of those does he bet/3bet the flop with and how many of those are we beating? What do you guys put him on, nines?

Call down from flop 3bet.

kerowo · #12 08-31-2007, 05:44 PM

I think we have to be careful giving an unknown too many characteristics. He's unknown, we don't know what he caps with pre-flop, we don't know how good he is at reading an overpair to the board if he holds tptk or 2ndptk.

Christian_Peters · #13 08-31-2007, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think we have to be careful giving an unknown too many characteristics. He's unknown, we don't know what he caps with pre-flop, we don't know how good he is at reading an overpair to the board if he holds tptk or 2ndptk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I completely agree. Everyone is assuming that we can reduce an unknown's range to 3 possible hands.

shuinthehouse · #14 08-31-2007, 05:56 PM

Remy/Ker - don't forget from villain's perspective what do I have? I 3 bet PF and cap a KQ2 flop, he's got to have me on at least AK or AA if not KK or QQ, and he still donks the turn.

I felt bad after the hand b/c I was sure I played it bad. But Kit/Xhad whose opinions I highly value have me spewing only one SB, a few others I hold in high regard have me on the money as played, and what I thought were better options after pondering the hand get no respect. It's scary that with time to analyze and determine best action I get it wrong, maybe somewhat re-assuring that in the heat of the battle got it arguably right or close to it.

Xhad · #15 08-31-2007, 07:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think we have to be careful giving an unknown too many characteristics. He's unknown, we don't know what he caps with pre-flop, we don't know how good he is at reading an overpair to the board if he holds tptk or 2ndptk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not like it takes that much skill to realize that AQo is smoked here. "He's an unknown" is usually an argument to go passive and get to showdown, not make marginal value bets that don't really get value from reasonable ranges.

EDIT: FWIW I think the flop cap is at worst a small error equity-wise, but a larger error because it sets you up for a turn c/r which makes it cost 3SB when you're wrong rather than 1SB. As played, when villain donks the turn you should thank him and just call down there.

RemyXO · #16 08-31-2007, 11:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Remy/Ker - don't forget from villain's perspective what do I have? I 3 bet PF and cap a KQ2 flop, he's got to have me on at least AK or AA if not KK or QQ, and he still donks the turn.

I felt bad after the hand b/c I was sure I played it bad. But Kit/Xhad whose opinions I highly value have me spewing only one SB, a few others I hold in high regard have me on the money as played, and what I thought were better options after pondering the hand get no respect. It's scary that with time to analyze and determine best action I get it wrong, maybe somewhat re-assuring that in the heat of the battle got it arguably right or close to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wrote what I WOULD DO, not what the CORRECT PLAY IS [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I catch myself at times being overaggro in wrong situations, and this looks like one of them.

RemyXO · #17 08-31-2007, 11:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would stick a raise on the turn and call down from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? against what part of villain's range is this a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

AK, AKs. Many more combos of AK than KK and QQ.
And they would play exactly the same as in op's post.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless I suck at life, I count 6 combos of AK and 6 of KK/QQ. If those hands are equally likely, we'd need him to 3-bet the turn with AK some of the time, otherwise, we get two turn bets and a river bet from AK and lose 3 turn bets and a river bet to KK/QQ unless you're thinking of folding to a turn 3-bet. If by some chance KQs is in his range, it gets worse.

I play it how Kit plays it.

[/ QUOTE ]

NIX, thanks for correcting me - I need to THINK before I POST [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Actually, since 2 Aces, 1 King and 1 Queen are accounted for,
there are only 3 AK combos, 3 KK combos and 3 QQ combos left.

Xhad · #18 09-01-2007, 02:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, since 2 Aces, 1 King and 1 Queen are accounted for,
there are only 3 AK combos, 3 KK combos and 3 QQ combos left.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 aces and 3 kings outstanding is 6 combos, unless you're going to make a distinction between AKs and AKo

marchron · #19 09-01-2007, 02:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
call down after the flop 3.

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks "call x3" is the best line here? This seems pretty WA/WB to me.

Xhad · #20 09-01-2007, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call down after the flop 3.

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks "call x3" is the best line here? This seems pretty WA/WB to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a known reasonable opponent this might be the case. Here, it should be noted that AK probably 3bets as well as KK/QQ and as noted elsewhere we're about a coinflip against that range, and when you add in various unreasonable hands he might have donked with and that he will probably call a flop raise with an underpair I think we have enough value to raise once.