Poker and Cheating

[ryguy2fly]

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In high school, this big football hero was marking the cards by biting them. I challenged him. That black eye did not go away for months. I met a guy in college who was very good at holding out. This is especially dangerous and they can do their moves on anybody's deal. He ended up barred around town.

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I'm sorry... He was biting the cards????

Also, pardon my ignorance, but what is "holding out"?

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Holding out cards from the game to be brought back in at a more opportune time

[bav]

A real-life B&M example of a holdout...

New dealer comes into the box and notices something under the chips of a guy playing out of a rack. She makes the guy move the rack and by golly there's a card. He claimed innocence and swore he had no idea how that card got there.

Surveillance ran the tapes and the claim was the guy made a very deliberate and obvious move maybe 10 minutes earlier. While everybody's eyes were focused elsewhere, he just moved his entire rack forward to cover that card and then pulled it back. Then mucked his lone remaining card. They were 100% convinced it was no accident.

The red-faced gentlemen was sent packing with a trespass order barring him from entering any Harrah's property anywhere ever again. He was also a hotel guest and was forced to leave the hotel as well.

[IvanXDurham]

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cheating is bad

you could get kicked out of school and have your life ruined

true story!

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elab?? [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[EL Burro Loco]

Thanks for the post Johnny. I am one of those idealists... when i first moved to Seattle in 04 a friend of mine taught me to play poker and we have been playing together ever since. He is a pretty good player when remotely sober, but he constantly suspects everyone else at the table is cheating. I am an honest guy who never cheated at anything so i never could understand why i thought my friend always thought everyone else was. I watched carefully at casinos and private games for colluding players, card watchers, guys marking cards etc. Only at a couple home games have i ever noticed some shady angle shots happening.

Then one day i am playing in a game with my friend... its a 2/4 400NL game and everyone else at the table is an arrogant poker know it all. It was a nitty, but totally beatable game straight up. During this game i caught my friend cheating no less than 4 times. I saw him peeking at cards as he dealt them, i caught him peeking at neighbors cards, i caught him shorting pots while making change, etc etc (i kept my mouth shut until after). It then dawned on me, that poker has this in common with relationships. Cheaters, always assume everyone else is cheating. In my 3 short years playing poker i have seen only a couple guys cheating... the vast majority of younger / newer players play the game fairly. I am pretty paranoid and i pay close attention, even when i am drinking, even when i am tired.

The best advice i can give is if you suspect anything shady going down get up and leave. End of story. When i play in new games i keep my bankroll hidden and bring two buy ins in with me so that if i go to leave and there is some sort of objection or someones threatens me i can just give up the money and walk away. There are plenty of honest games in the world.

Also, i made this saying up, but it has held true since i started playing poker (no offense intended)... "at a poker table be wary of any man wearing cowboy boots."

[PRIMADONNA]

Mr Hughes is the most underrated (questionable) / my favorite poster on 2+2. AINEC.

proud fanboy.

[cbloom]

The solution to the crooked games is to allow handguns in casinos.

[TStoneMBD]

I think in thew modern playing age its very common for players to collude without knowing it. people naturally alter their play when a friend is in the pot or they are on a shared roll with someone. they may be doing this without intentionally trying to gain an edge. I still stand by my accusations, even stronger than before that the neverwin/chantel hand from a hs lhe post of mine was in fact collusion. while I do suspect that neverwins motives were the intent of collusion, I do not accuse him of realizing that what he was doing was in fact collusion. I think this specific hand is a good example of what can and will happen when players play under shared bankrolls even if they intend to play with the utmost integrity.

also, in this day and age, its quite common to find someone pull off an angle shoot. I've seen this happen most often in ac where the majority of players are long time casino veterans and not so much a part of the new internet breed. its also very common for players to manipulate an agreement to gain an unfair edge. an example of this would be that everyone agrees to straddle and a player doesn't straddle out on a bathroom break and doesn't straddle in when he returns, but instead posts behind. in most cases I think these people reali1 that they've gained an unfair edge but they always pretend that they don't know better. of course, I'm always the one to come off looking like a nit for calling them out on it.