QQ tough spot oop 160 bb deep

[Josh.]

havent posted here in awhile but i really hope my avatar isnt still the mets one...

ub 10/25, this is a hand my buddy played

we ($4000) open interracial, diamondless QQ utg 6-handed to 85, utg+1 ($2700, no read) calls, button (cover, 27/21 over 80 hands) calls, and the blinds fold

FLOP (pot $290): 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

we bet 290 (he timed down and hit bet pot to get his bet in), and only the button calls

TURN (pot $870): 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

we bet $625, and he makes it 1600 straight with about 2k behind...

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- turn wtf? my gut reaction is 'how could you fold' when he has position, it's a good 2 barreling board with little history, his opponent hasn't committed many chips, and QQ is toward the very top of his utg raising range on this board.

- maybe i'm being results oriented, but with awkward (deep with button) and differing stacks, being out of position to 2 players, and the dryness of the board, i think it's a good spot to check the flop.

- turn bet? i don't like checking, and i think if you check the turn you should check the flop instead. it has many of the same advantages, except you aren't turning your hand face up 160 bb deep out of position

[klownage]

Umm betting flop is standard.

I think betting turn is standard too

Turn raise is so sick though, I don't see how we are ever ahead unless villain sucks, in which case it's an easy shove.

[Josh.]

[ QUOTE ]
Umm betting flop is standard.

I think betting turn is standard too

Turn raise is so sick though, I don't see how we are ever ahead unless villain sucks, in which case it's an easy shove.

[/ QUOTE ]


i am not concerned with what is standard, but what is best. betting the flop is standard because just about everyone would do it, but that's just mindless autobetting, and doesn't necessarily make it best

why cant we be ahead on the turn? why does he have to suck? he hasnt committed many chips yet, yet he's forcing us to commit all ours. we could be 2 barreling light

[BobboFitos]

stackoff, def. bet the flop, checkraise all in on the turn.

[Josh.]

bobbo, agree or disagree? when he bets the turn his range is mostly comprised of monsters and (edit: very) weak made hands, and likely any flush draw with the possibly exception of NFD.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
bobbo, agree or disagree? when he bets the turn his range is mostly comprised of monsters and weak made hands and draws.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's hard to argue with that josh, that's like saying im dealt two cards preflop and my holdings are comprised of 3high hands and pairs. (and anythingin-between)

Basically will he bet/call a weak made hand? Are we classifying hands like 9x to be a weak made hand or a marginal made hand? (Bc i'm asking if he will check say 66-TT, 9x) whereas your weak madehands will be like AJo or 44. (that's nota boat on this board right?)

not too many draws, obv he could havea flush draw.

basically 3way pot on the flop since i t's a low paired board it's hard to put him on trips, if can have it are you prepared to get stacked off here? I am

if not bet/folding the turn is fine, as is check calling the turn.

[JKratzer]

bet the flop. you usually have the best hand and checking doesn't make it any easier to play.

now push turn

[Josh.]

bobbo, yes the hands i meant to leave out are TT, 88, A9, suited 9s. i think they'll often check for pot control. check-raising is hoping he will either bet with full intention of calling a raise (imo unlikely with 0 history and likely not much in the way of a read of hero), or bet with no plan whatsoever then talk himself into calling because hero has a flush draw.

i'd also like to know why you like folding as played. you wrote "basically 3way pot on the flop since i t's a low paired board it's hard to put him on trips, if can have it are you prepared to get stacked off here? I am" which i largely agree with (even though after overcalling on the button there are several hands with a 3 he can have), but where does that breakdown once we've bet and he's raised?

i'm going to sleep, so i'll check in the morning. thanks

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd also like to know why you like folding as played. you wrote "basically 3way pot on the flop since i t's a low paired board it's hard to put him on trips, if can have it are you prepared to get stacked off here? I am" which i largely agree with (even though after overcalling on the button there are several hands with a 3 he can have), but where does that breakdown once we've bet and he's raised?

[/ QUOTE ]
Im saying that if you'renot prepared tostack off, you fold. And if you're planning on folding, id probably c/c or bet/fold, as hero did.

also,i think alot of people bet those hands you say dont bet for pc. (more then you think)

[jfish]

bet flop to maintain an aggressive metagame if nothing else. i like c/ring turn, but that might be results oriented.

as played i am thinking fold..