50NL: ZOMG! I bet to find out where I'm at!!

[Chomp]

Button is 27/7 over 20 hands. So not really meaningful. Please note MP stack size.

...............................................

Wrote a long rambling intro but deleted it as I'm pretty confused here.

It boils down to this: my turn bet must be a bet for information since...

> It's not a bet for value, because I can't seriously be called by 99 (which prolly didn't call pre anyway) or even whiffed overs
> And it's not a bluff/whiffed cbet as I actually have a hand

So it is a bet not designed to fold better hands or get value from worse ones (I mean, a FD is a small part of his range here).

So surely all it can be is a bet to find out where I'm at. No? Is there a more EV line?

And fwiw, "where I'm at" is Beatensville IMO. So I fold.


Thanks.

...............................................

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($19.25)
UTG ($45.25)
<font color="#C00000">MP ($9.25)</font>
CO ($51.45)
<font color="#C00000">Button ($52.65)</font>
Hero ($62.43)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1</font>, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $8.25 (All-In), CO folds, Button calls $8.25, Hero calls $3.25.

Flop: ($29.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, Button calls $43.40 (All-In), Hero folds.

[Sweir]

I think there is value in this bet but probably the main reason for betting here is protection.

[bozzer]

i simply never take button's line preflop so i have no idea what he has. my guess is {22-AA, AQ+, KQ}. when he finally shows aggression on the flop I would fold.

About your bet... i don't like it. let's go through and decide about betting vs checking:

checking: allows him to draw for free, keeps his range extremely wide, tightens your range to pretty much {TT,AK}.

check-raising: folds out nothing you beat except once in a while QQ.

check-calling: has got to be bad I think cos the chances are you will be folding later in the hand.

betting: allows you to stop him drawing, allows you to define his range a little bit but not that much if he just calls (what does he definately not have if he calls?), gets value from 99 possibly, builds the pot in a hand were you are OOP with a marginal hand.

all in all i really don't like this spot!

if you don't feel you can check-fold (because you will have induced a bluff) i would bet 2/3 pot and fold to a raise, check/fold turn if called. I think 2/3 pot is better than 1/2 because you are still pretty much asking for a raise when you bet half pot, and it doesn't protect very well against draws.


preflop i might just call at a loose table.

[sharpie]

I think the guy in the side pot prevents you from getting bluffed out, although button might ocasionally bet if he has something like a flush draw or a pocket pair.

A bet is not worth folding out overcards, you're betting 15 to win 30 but they only have about a 13% chance of drawing out, plus even if you do fold them out you might sometimes be beaten, or get drawn out by the guy all in. I doubt a draw is folding. The only value I can see in betting is not getting accidentally bluffed out by a worse made hand, but I don't think it's worth it. I would check the flop.

[matrix]

check flop.

There is very little value in a CB cos the pots protected (there's a ss all-in so there will be a SD)

also seriously what hands cold call a shortstack all-in - inviting the pfr to come back OTT by not isoraising vs the donk?

VERY STRONG HANDS.

We are WB here often - sometimes when cold calling button "only" has AK he might fold to a CB but rarely I think.

c/c a modest bet here cf anything more than 1/2pot ish.

Button has JJ+ here I think almost always.

if Button DOESN'T have a big pair and shows down something like AJ and pulls this line preflop again - value shove.

[Chomp]

Ok, thanks for great responses...I can see this hand much more clearly now.

I bet partly to block being bluffed off it/charge overs, but that does seem a bit dozy alright looking at it again.

Villain had 67. Whatever. A-hole.

[bozzer]

he he.

good point about pot being protected. i did consider that but obviously not properly. (tho i think with the hand range I gave him you might still want to bet because otherwise he could start shoving lower pairs hoping to get you out and hoping that the other guy missed.)