50NL: Another fine mess with AK

[Chomp]

Only 25 hands on villain, 22/18/infinity. My read is already that those stats are fairly accurate, and he's a decent TAG. Maybe one of you guys/2+2 type name.

Villain got his stack in a standard overpair v. overpair situation (QQ v. JJ) on a rag board, showing aggression and degree of bravery when he was c/mr on flop and he 3b right back at the villain's cr.

Postflop is my main concern here as preflop is whatever and we've discussed it here a lot recently. My read tells me a light 3b is not impossible, but there's no reason to consider that a major possibility, so I assign a sane 3b range to villain. I'm sure I could have 4b to try fold out some better hands (QQ-?), or I could have pushed. But I chose to flat with position, hoping for value from a worse A/K, float or get away.

I think the issues post are fairly obvious. Villain's turn shove is for the rest of my stack.

Thanks.

.....................

Converter at Talking-Poker

Button ($50.70)
SB ($52.95)
BB <font color="#C00000">BB ($108.95)</font>
UTG ($65.73)
UTG+1 ($50.00)
CO Hero ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is in the CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises to $2.00, 2 folds, BB raises to $6.50, Hero calls $5.00.

Flop ($14.25) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB bets $12.00, Hero calls $12.00.

Turn ($38.25) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB bets $30.50, Hero...

[creamfillin]

I think we are splitting here at best most of the time. If you had a better read that his 3-betting range was lighter I would stack off here, but a decent TAG isn't shoving this turn with anything you beat except for maybe JhTh.

[Lostit]

As played, its a fold, because what are you beating here besides a flush draw or a bluff? AA beats you, KK,&amp; QQ both hits sets, and AK splits. The flush draw still has a chance to come in also, so thats not exactly drawing dead either. The only thing you're hoping for is the bluff.

This brings me to the second point, which would help to deter the bluff. At what point in this hand did you define your opponents hand? You called the preflop and flop raises. Can you say your opponent DOESN'T have AK himself and is interpreting your calls as someone with 2 hearts who is trying to draw out on him? His line could be exactly how an AK would play it, trying to fight off a flush draw.

What I would have done differently is to 4 bet preflop in position. Here is why I would have done that:

A.) If you call, which you did, pot going to the flop is $12, meaning that you'll have to pay another $12 just to match a pot size bet, and you find nothing out. This is exactly what happened.

B.) If I take that same $12 and 4bet preflop in position, to make your total bet $18. We'd see how much he likes his hand then huh? You would know exactly where you are without having to contemplate the $30 bet that you are now, and there would be little room for bluffs.

Both lines cost you the same, but by repopping him in this spot you gain more clarity, gain fold equity, and actually save money.

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we are splitting here at best most of the time. If you had a better read that his 3-betting range was lighter I would stack off here, but a decent TAG isn't shoving this turn with anything you beat except for maybe JhTh.

[/ QUOTE ]

In all fairness, he's not beating JhTh either, he's a 55/45 dog to that hand too

[creamfillin]

On the turn I mean.. he's a 2:1 favorite

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn I mean.. he's a 2:1 favorite

[/ QUOTE ]

I see now, I stand corrected. Just think of me as that guy in your avatar and no further explanation is probably necessary.

[members_only]

Chomp you've posted quite a few hands recently where you flop top pair w/ AK in a re-raised pot and don't know what to do when facing heavy action (often after having put a decent sized bet in yourself on the flop)

Personally if I get into a 3-bet pot with AK I am felting tptk every time unless i get some kind of super-sick read. (And I'd often 4-bet shove it vs a 3-bet) If I'm really worried that villain's 3-bet range is tight enough for this to be unprofitable I will try to fold pf

This is a simple and I think totally standard/effective strategy. Do you agree?

I think your statement 'But I chose to flat with position, hoping for value from a worse A/K, float or get away' is a bit hopeless because you are essentially trying to get a very accurate read out of two fairly blunt streets of post-flop betting. That's the thing about re-raised pots, there just isn't room for more than 2 bets post-flop, and hence not much room for you to get a read of the kind you seem to think you require

Just in case this comes across the wrong way I don't mean this to be patronizing at all, it's more that I want to see if my ideas on the subject are sound

[Chomp]

[ QUOTE ]
Just in case this comes across the wrong way I don't mean this to be patronizing at all, it's more that I want to see if my ideas on the subject are sound

[/ QUOTE ]


Not at all man. I need all the help I can get, and appreciate your thoughts.

I'll sleep on it and reply in am.



Cheers.

[Zuccala]

Agreed with above posters. If you are in a 3-bet PF pot and you have TP/TK it is felt unless a nasty flop. Howver, when I am getting 3-betted on and I have Ak I 4-Bet, if he is a looser player it may be ALL-IN or maybe not depending. It is usually cheaper and it allows the pressure to be back on the original 3- bettor. Unless they have AA or KK they have a tough decision as u are even money against QQ and below and only a 2-1 dog to KK. You also have alll Ax hand dominated.

That being said as played you have to fold here. This is a bad flop for AK and you really do not know where you are!