Weak leads (way too late pooh-bah?) tl;dr

[patrick10]

yes that was kindof my point

though if im OOP, I often mix it up between donking and trying to CR, as alot of villains will C-Bet, and i can take down a larger pot.

I don't however think it is a fantastic idea to donk bet with middle pairs. I am all ears though, i would like to hear why you do.

[vixticator]

Also incase I wasn't clear this is against unknowns or weak players, not against 2p2 or CR members. They are much more likely to lead with a big hand. But if you played with them long enough you'd know that already. Just advice against the flsh. Their thought process on a J44 flop or J82 flop is to weak lead with 77 to "see where they stand." Some of them instamuck, others just call down. Knowing which is which gives you the opportunity to either bluff with impunity or value raise and bet every street because they are playing face up.

[DockDD]

When I get a free flop in the BB, I'll donk low paired boards sometimes, whether I have it or not. I'll donk to slow down my opponent sometimes, usually with something like midpair + backdoor or TPWK. I donk to start building a pot with a great draw. I donk flopped sets, straights and flushes almost always.

These bad donking guys are often short stacks who caught a piece or are just bluffing. I raise every shortstack (even if I was stealing with junk) until I have a good note. Often, they'll have a note of "habitual donk" well before they do it to me cuz I've seen them do it to others. Frequently, I see these types have bet size reveals strength issues. eg potsize or push=miracle two pair, minbet=some pair or draw or air (or visa versa).

Against aggressive thinking players, you can sometimes feign weakness by, say, using a 1/2 PSB where your normal is 3/4, and get them to come over the top. I've had this work a few times, but I'm not sure if they actually saw me as weak or were going to press the issue anyway. I will bet just less than an even dollar amount sometimes to make my bet look weaker (eg 1.75 instead of 2). No evidence that this works either, but it saves me a quarter when I have air.

[creamfillin]

What do you typically do when someone leads weak into a 3-way pot and you have 99 on like a Q75r board? I also find myself just calling these donk bets when I flop a middle pair on a dry board.. is this bad?

Also when do you decide if you are going to fire that second barrel after you raise a weak donk-bet and he calls?

[corsakh]

Whats your way around idiots like me who donk everything. I donk middle pairs. I donk sets. I donk air. I even donk draws. Bottom line, I rarely call OOP, but if I did, I donk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[bozzer]

I don't understand why you are raising the first hand. I think you do better by getting more value from worse made hands than by bluffing better made hands.

[Triggerle]

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In your first example villain leads for 3/4 pot. I don't think that's a very weak bet.

If a villain bets more than > 1/2 pot I generally don't raise with ATC. In a headsup pot I raise close to 100% when a villain bets less than 1/2 pot and I have no reads, this seems to be working very well.

Villains that donkbet small, call my raise on the flop and donkbet again on the (seemingly blank) turn confuse me though...

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I never understand what to do there.

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That's a typical aggro-donk line. If you don't raise again they will read you as weak and bomb the river. If you raise again and they fold they will usually stop donkbetting you for the time being.

[monkover]

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Whats your way around idiots like me who donk everything. I donk middle pairs. I donk sets. I donk air. I even donk draws. Bottom line, I rarely call OOP, but if I did, I donk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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i think this is about donks donking though and i´m kinda sure you´re not that much of a tard

[monkover]

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I don't understand why you are raising the first hand. I think you do better by getting more value from worse made hands than by bluffing better made hands.

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yeah i def though this too. Raising donks every time it´s the first time is a huge leak!

[Profish2285]

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Whats your way around idiots like me who donk everything. I donk middle pairs. I donk sets. I donk air. I even donk draws. Bottom line, I rarely call OOP, but if I did, I donk

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Why do you do this though? Dont you feel you are giving up on some free continuation bets? I think a c/r definitely has a place in my game. If someone c-bets a ton I can c/r bluff them and take down the c-bet that I never would have gotten by donking into them. Not to mention, when you donk with hands like mid pair, you cant stand a raise. I would think donks should be very polarized, either to steal cheaper than a c/r would, or to get value on big hands, nothing in between like mid pair.