UB150 66 hand. turn play?

[flawless_victory]

fishy player limps UTG, unknown (seems TAG, kinda short chips) raises MP1, folds to me in BB, i call 66, UTG calls.

flop 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
check, check, bet, i checkraise, UTG c/c's, MP calls.

turn T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
play?

really a simple hand, but im not sure whether this is a bet or a check. also plz specify whether u call a bet or a raise (im assuming every1 will fold for 2 cold either way).

full game BTW, one walker i think.

[ggbman]

More info on the fish would help, but generally, i think you need to bet here. I would assume for example, that the fish would c/c with overcards here a lot, and MP is going to call the flop raise with anything.

MP would 3 bet the flop a lot with a made hand, as both you and the fish are in the pot and he would be giving up a lot by not doing so. That said, he could definitly be waiting until the turn hoping to trap you both on the big street. If the action went bet-call-raise, i would call and fold the river if you don't hit a 6 or make a straight.

If you check, the fish might just randomly bet, and MP could raise you to isolate, which is pretty disasterous. Also, let's say you check, and the fish bets. Would you know what that meant? I mean, if it goes check-bet-call-call, its so tough to know where you stand on the river, whereas by betting, you will usually know if you want to showdown or not. Also, this board texture sucks for AK/AQ, which combo wise is very likely for MP. He should muck those to a turn be a lot.

So i would bet for the aforementioned reasons.

Gabe

[Jeffage]

I lean towards check folding the turn (depending on the action). When UTG coldcalls, yes he could be on a draw or he could have a piece of the board (which beats you). But his flop coldcall combined with the preflop raiser in there and you up front spells disaster for you.

On turn, if UTG is open he hit tens and might raise. PFR could have an overpair. And here you are with [censored] outs and a [censored] hand. I dump it.

Jeff

[ike]

I check/fold turn. If you were ahead before the ten (somewhat unlikely) it probably made someone beat you. About the only way you're ahead is if UTG has a flush draw and MP1 has some big cards, even this isn't a good spot. Your none of your outs are close to clean.

[whodaman]

really depends on how fishy the fish is. Would he call 2 cold with just overs?
I would lean towards check folding because if you bet you probably have to call for your gutter/set outs if it goes bet call raise or bet raise call.
I feel putting two bets in on the turn with the ass end of a gutter and 4th pair is pretty bad. Altho checking and having ak and qj see free cards would suck too.

[ggbman]

All 3 of you are going to c/f the turn getting 7.5 or 8.5 to one when you have a gutshot and the 6's are probably clean? I mean MP calling the flop raise means absolutley nothing, so it depends what the fish's play means, which is why i said a better read on the fish would help.

[NLSoldier]

gabe,

calling it a gutshot is a bit of an exaggeration isnt it?

how about "gutshot to the piss-end of a one card straight that has no implied odds and plenty of reverse implied odds"?

[ggbman]

yes, to some degree for sure. A 7 won't always be clean, but we are talking about rivering it, implied odds don't exist on the river in LHE, it's about pot odds. Just to clarify, i think that you cannot c/r the flop if you intend to c/f that turn card.

[DpR]

I would bet/call this turn and fold river unimproved (if I got rasied on the turn). We dont really have any reason to think anyone has anything and I do not think we are getting bluff rasied by the MP very oftenb here on the turn.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, to some degree for sure. A 7 won't always be clean, but we are talking about rivering it, implied odds don't exist on the river in LHE, it's about pot odds. Just to clarify, i think that you cannot c/r the flop if you intend to c/f that turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

what i meant by implied odds is that even if we hit our gutshot we probably dont gain an extra bet on teh river but we might lose two.