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#12
06-04-2007, 05:24 AM
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Re: First hand i\'ve submitted - TPTK 150bbs deep
ok i'll explain my play here because its certainly not standard.
The flop raise is fairly big, so coming back over the top would have gotten me commited right then and there... i wasn't prepared to do that so i just called. I wrote off JJ QQ KK AA because those are all 3 bet hands even for a nit (which he's not) especially on the button. He either has 44 66 or a flush draw. Its actually also slightly possible that he has 46 suited, considering his 30 vpip. I was planning on checking the turn until that 4c came. Now he either has a flush draw, quads, or a full house. I bet the 170 for information, and i stand by that bet. I can get far more information with that bet size as opposed to 230, plus he's still getting bad odds with his flush draw. If we really wanna tear this hand apart, in retrospect i think 190 is the perfect bet. I felt that my turn bet extracted the exact information i was looking for. That 500 raise is huge if he has a full house or quads. If he had that, he would WANT me to draw to my flush, and raise to 400. That $100 difference was absolutely crucial to me. He COULD be raising me to 500 with his boat or quads, but he could have bet tons less, still got me commited, and have a higher chance of me calling. That 500 raise makes it 330 to me, and to be honest i want to call that MUCH MORE than if he shoved and it was another $580 to me. Shoving to my bet is a decent play with the full house, quads, or the flush draw. I muck my hand instantly if he shoves. I also probably instamuck my hand if he raises me anywhere from a minraise to 400... cause it looks like he's trying to keep me in. But that 500.... its just a bad bet. So i shove come back over the top for his last 250 and he calls, i'll post results after a few more replies and thoughts to my breakdown 
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#17
06-04-2007, 05:29 AM
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Re: First hand i\'ve submitted - TPTK 150bbs deep
k just read your thesis, and you don't seem to be taking into account that he might have 66/64, and is betting so large on the turn because he DOESN'T want the flush/straight to get there, so that he can get as much money in as possible vs your AJ/QQ+?
y'know, just a thought? what in particular about your play would lead him to believe that you had a draw?
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#18
06-04-2007, 05:37 AM
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Re: First hand i\'ve submitted - TPTK 150bbs deep
to ipoker,
I did take 66 into account but i really don't think he plays it this way. Even the flop raise is huge (even if its 10-20 too high, its high). I know that fastplaying is the new slowplaying, but if he has 66 he is playing it TOO fast. Also, my play is very very representative of a flush draw (also of a jack good kicker). Calling the flop raise and making a semi weak bet on turn in an attempt to save myself from a huge flush block bet is quite apparent here. I don't see what you're saying about the flush draw.... if he has a full house, why wouldn't he want a flush to get there. The only thing that BEATS me is a full house or quads, so why wouldn't he want a flush to hit?
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#19
06-04-2007, 05:41 AM
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Re: First hand i\'ve submitted - TPTK 150bbs deep
because then you'll fold an overpair/TPTK that you're worried about protecting, which is your most reasonable holding from his perspective. you look like you have exactly what you have, AJ/QQ+ that decided not to 3-bet ai on the flop because he wanted to see a good turn card come off because he knew that if he got AI on the flop, he'd only get into coinflips and be behind sets, whereas if he gets in on a safe turn he can maximize equity vs draws. i.e., you probably have AJ/QQ+ and he is playing accordingly.
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#20
06-04-2007, 05:47 AM
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Re: First hand i\'ve submitted - TPTK 150bbs deep
i agree with you on a lot of that ipoker, except where you say maximize equity. Perhaps i'm looking far too much into this, but the 500 bet threw me off. If he's trying to maximize his equity, i really can't see a raise over ~420 here. Sure, if he thinks i'll fold if a diamond comes then what you're saying makes sense, but since his raise is that much bigger, i'm going to fold more often with AJ+ and QQ+.
edit - i know my last sentence proves your theory, which is that i will fold AJ+ and QQ+ more often. Thats kind of my point as well, but from a different perspective. It FEELS like he wants me to fold... yet he's building a big pot. I think he has much higher equity with a smaller raise. if he has the quads or boat, he'll get me committed MUCH more often with a smaller bet, and also get me to fold my AJ+ and QQ+ NEARLY as often as the 500.
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