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#51
11-03-2007, 09:58 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well, for those of you that characterized AK as "a crappy but pretty hand" and "a relatively weak holding" I can only say that it has consistenly been one of the most profitable hands for me over hundreds of thousands of hands. This is in line with the experience of many if nor most other players as well. If it appears "crappy but pretty" to you you may wish to consider if you are maximizing its value....say by cranking it up pre-flop and semi-bluffing small pocket pairs OOP who have missed the flop, and who most of the board looks scary to. Check when you miss on a coordinated board or against multiple opponents, unless they are weak-tight. As far as the poster suggesting that he likes to call down AK, I assume you like calling down AA KK QQ JJ and sets with your middle pair as well. AK is part of an overall balanced and aggressive strategy that encourages middle pair calls. I assure you i will not be on a bluff train often enough for it to be profitable for you. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't mean I will always call down with middle pair, against holdings like a big pocket pair. I just go with my reads most of the time. I do not need 55 different math equations to tell me when someone is pushing AK. I also do not play on the internet, so I imagine this does make a difference. You know what, everybody has their own opinion on the hand and their way to play it, and I guess it comes down to what is best and most comfortable to you, unless you are constantly losing with AK or mucking it repeatedly after a big/ no preflop raise. If this is the case you need to change the way you are playing the hand. [/ QUOTE ] The game I play is played with the cards face down. I assure you you cannot tell the difference between the way I play AA KK AK QQ JJ and sets on many boards because I deliberately play them the same-- quite aggressively in position, to either bully people and/or encourage looser action. Its a cop out to just say "I know when you got AK, and I'm going call you down." I'm an experienced poker player and I know that reads rarely work this way. And in my experience playing however you feel comfortable is a recipe for complete disaster. It far more "comfortable" to limp and call, rather than pushing the action with preflop raises and post flop aggression. In other word, "comfortable" is basically a losing strategy. You may not be "comfortable" with treating AK as a powerful hand, but it just means you are leaving money on the table. 
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#53
11-04-2007, 01:19 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, for those of you that characterized AK as "a crappy but pretty hand" and "a relatively weak holding" I can only say that it has consistenly been one of the most profitable hands for me over hundreds of thousands of hands. This is in line with the experience of many if nor most other players as well. If it appears "crappy but pretty" to you you may wish to consider if you are maximizing its value....say by cranking it up pre-flop and semi-bluffing small pocket pairs OOP who have missed the flop, and who most of the board looks scary to. Check when you miss on a coordinated board or against multiple opponents, unless they are weak-tight. As far as the poster suggesting that he likes to call down AK, I assume you like calling down AA KK QQ JJ and sets with your middle pair as well. AK is part of an overall balanced and aggressive strategy that encourages middle pair calls. I assure you i will not be on a bluff train often enough for it to be profitable for you. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't mean I will always call down with middle pair, against holdings like a big pocket pair. I just go with my reads most of the time. I do not need 55 different math equations to tell me when someone is pushing AK. I also do not play on the internet, so I imagine this does make a difference. You know what, everybody has their own opinion on the hand and their way to play it, and I guess it comes down to what is best and most comfortable to you, unless you are constantly losing with AK or mucking it repeatedly after a big/ no preflop raise. If this is the case you need to change the way you are playing the hand. [/ QUOTE ] The game I play is played with the cards face down. I assure you you cannot tell the difference between the way I play AA KK AK QQ JJ and sets on many boards because I deliberately play them the same-- quite aggressively in position, to either bully people and/or encourage looser action. Its a cop out to just say "I know when you got AK, and I'm going call you down." I'm an experienced poker player and I know that reads rarely work this way. And in my experience playing however you feel comfortable is a recipe for complete disaster. It far more "comfortable" to limp and call, rather than pushing the action with preflop raises and post flop aggression. In other word, "comfortable" is basically a losing strategy. You may not be "comfortable" with treating AK as a powerful hand, but it just means you are leaving money on the table. [/ QUOTE ] I can assure you 8-9 times out of 10 I can tell the difference, usually so much so I could tell you your exact 2 cards, let alone that its a big pair.
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#54
11-04-2007, 01:47 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, for those of you that characterized AK as "a crappy but pretty hand" and "a relatively weak holding" I can only say that it has consistenly been one of the most profitable hands for me over hundreds of thousands of hands. This is in line with the experience of many if nor most other players as well. If it appears "crappy but pretty" to you you may wish to consider if you are maximizing its value....say by cranking it up pre-flop and semi-bluffing small pocket pairs OOP who have missed the flop, and who most of the board looks scary to. Check when you miss on a coordinated board or against multiple opponents, unless they are weak-tight. As far as the poster suggesting that he likes to call down AK, I assume you like calling down AA KK QQ JJ and sets with your middle pair as well. AK is part of an overall balanced and aggressive strategy that encourages middle pair calls. I assure you i will not be on a bluff train often enough for it to be profitable for you. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't mean I will always call down with middle pair, against holdings like a big pocket pair. I just go with my reads most of the time. I do not need 55 different math equations to tell me when someone is pushing AK. I also do not play on the internet, so I imagine this does make a difference. You know what, everybody has their own opinion on the hand and their way to play it, and I guess it comes down to what is best and most comfortable to you, unless you are constantly losing with AK or mucking it repeatedly after a big/ no preflop raise. If this is the case you need to change the way you are playing the hand. [/ QUOTE ] The game I play is played with the cards face down. I assure you you cannot tell the difference between the way I play AA KK AK QQ JJ and sets on many boards because I deliberately play them the same-- quite aggressively in position, to either bully people and/or encourage looser action. Its a cop out to just say "I know when you got AK, and I'm going call you down." I'm an experienced poker player and I know that reads rarely work this way. And in my experience playing however you feel comfortable is a recipe for complete disaster. It far more "comfortable" to limp and call, rather than pushing the action with preflop raises and post flop aggression. In other word, "comfortable" is basically a losing strategy. You may not be "comfortable" with treating AK as a powerful hand, but it just means you are leaving money on the table. [/ QUOTE ] I can assure you 8-9 times out of 10 I can tell the difference, usually so much so I could tell you your exact 2 cards, let alone that its a big pair. [/ QUOTE ] Sure you can, hoss. Sure you can. You see opponents souls, but you can't win with AK. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#55
11-04-2007, 02:31 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
Whoever said I couldn't win with AK?
And no I can't see people's souls. I see dead people.
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#56
11-04-2007, 05:05 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
lol, this thread is so funny...
Seriously, I agree with the big Hombre there. AK is a good hand. In fact it is a great hand if you know how to hide the fact that you are holding exactly that. And I also prefer to do it by making the same preflop play with AK as I do with AA/KK/QQ all the way up to 3 betting it. Then I will consider where I stand. It serves well to mask your 3 betrange if you are willing to be very agressive with AK. If someone claims they can tell when someone has AK based on preflop plays, my hat is off to you. Especially if you can do it online. Usually when you call down the preflop raise and c-bet you are in quite deep if you find out it was not AK, but instead a big pair.
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#57
11-04-2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
I know it is a good hand, but I personally hate it the most out of all the good hands.
And online, I agree it is very hard to catch reads such as if someone is pushing AK. I am a live cash game player, not an online player, and although many of the skills are the same, I believe it takes a completely different skill set to play each game respectively. I by no means think either game is easier than the other. Just with live play a lot can be picked up off a persons demeanor. I am not even talking about tells such as hand movements and posture, but more player chatter and voice tone, etc. I am not trying to be all righteous here, or sound like some phenom, but I tend to have exceptionally good reads on people's hands. I have offered people my whole stack before in Atlantic City or Foxwoods or Vegas, or even home games, as a side bet to name a players hole cards of a hand neither of us were involved in. I have never been taken up on this offer, but many times have made $10-40 side bets, and I am about(no bs) 80% on those easy. And this is usually after sitting at a table for 1-2 hours with players I either don't know or barely know. I know I am kind of getting off subject here, and sound like I am bragging, but this is the reason I said I have called people down with middle pair when I know they are pushing AK. The only reason I usually don't come over the top in situations like this is although it can F you royally if a player hits an A or K on the turn or river, they will usually continue betting for you, as long as they are 1st to act, at least till the turn. Anyway, I am sick of talking about AK. Lets start a new thread, how to play 7 2 suited.
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#58
11-04-2007, 05:56 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, for those of you that characterized AK as "a crappy but pretty hand" and "a relatively weak holding" I can only say that it has consistenly been one of the most profitable hands for me over hundreds of thousands of hands. This is in line with the experience of many if nor most other players as well. If it appears "crappy but pretty" to you you may wish to consider if you are maximizing its value....say by cranking it up pre-flop and semi-bluffing small pocket pairs OOP who have missed the flop, and who most of the board looks scary to. Check when you miss on a coordinated board or against multiple opponents, unless they are weak-tight. As far as the poster suggesting that he likes to call down AK, I assume you like calling down AA KK QQ JJ and sets with your middle pair as well. AK is part of an overall balanced and aggressive strategy that encourages middle pair calls. I assure you i will not be on a bluff train often enough for it to be profitable for you. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't mean I will always call down with middle pair, against holdings like a big pocket pair. I just go with my reads most of the time. I do not need 55 different math equations to tell me when someone is pushing AK. I also do not play on the internet, so I imagine this does make a difference. You know what, everybody has their own opinion on the hand and their way to play it, and I guess it comes down to what is best and most comfortable to you, unless you are constantly losing with AK or mucking it repeatedly after a big/ no preflop raise. If this is the case you need to change the way you are playing the hand. [/ QUOTE ] The game I play is played with the cards face down. I assure you you cannot tell the difference between the way I play AA KK AK QQ JJ and sets on many boards because I deliberately play them the same-- quite aggressively in position, to either bully people and/or encourage looser action. Its a cop out to just say "I know when you got AK, and I'm going call you down." I'm an experienced poker player and I know that reads rarely work this way. And in my experience playing however you feel comfortable is a recipe for complete disaster. It far more "comfortable" to limp and call, rather than pushing the action with preflop raises and post flop aggression. In other word, "comfortable" is basically a losing strategy. You may not be "comfortable" with treating AK as a powerful hand, but it just means you are leaving money on the table. [/ QUOTE ] I can assure you 8-9 times out of 10 I can tell the difference, usually so much so I could tell you your exact 2 cards, let alone that its a big pair. [/ QUOTE ] yo i know this is gonna be hard for you to hear but you really cant tell what they have, you are guessing. You're also not good at poker, you havent caught on to some v. basic principles of playing well. You only win in live games because they are absurdly soft.
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#59
11-04-2007, 06:11 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
[ QUOTE ]
Whoever said I couldn't win with AK? And no I can't see people's souls. I see dead people. [/ QUOTE ] I see dead money.
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#60
11-04-2007, 08:52 PM
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Re: Don\'t raise AK preflop, ever acceptable?
Gonzo, at first I agreed with you that one of my comments maybe did not add to the conversation. Then I see later you post a funny photo possibly ascribing kitten like qualities to those who play AK differently. I'm not sure if your trying to add to the conversation or be funny. Either way, I'm not offended or tilted by your remarks. My post was intended to get people thinking and reviewing this post shows clearly it was porovocative. Each to his own. I don't always play this hand the same. Nobody is going to talk me into playing like a bot. I've just busted so many players live playing this hand too agressively. I'll call a reasonable preflop bet of a TA player whom I suspect overvalues a big starter like this with a wide variety of hands. If he can play his AK well after the flop then maybe he's somebody I'm avoiding at the table. It's a situational hand in many ways. For any play or defence it maters who at the table your playing against.
Dave
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