I lost money to a BOT

[polkaface]

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Obviouly there is a overwhelming chance that whatever was confiscated won't cover all the players who lost money to the bot. In this more-than-likely scenario FTP can not give everyone a full refund. But isn't the solution obvious? Prorated disbursement of the confiscated monies based on how much each person lost.

So if ALLEN lost $5k, and there are 200 players who lost a total of $150k to this bot (life-time winners need not apply), then ALLEN should get 5/150 or 3.3% of the confiscated funds.

I don't see how the manpower involved to do this is over FTP's head. They conduct multi-month investigations all the time, and given the HHs this would take me about 20 minutes in excel.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am fine of being reimbursed a portion of the forfeited funds. I just DO NOT BELIEVE it will happen period.

And I am still laughing at the fact that most of you are trying to turn it on me, like I am at fault another player was violating the rules of the game.

How would you feel if you were cheated at the live game and when the culprit was caught, you would not get a dime of confiscated money.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we were at the casino, when the cheat is discovered, who is to say that he isn't a net loser to that current table of players? It would be all of the players who are gone and did not leave a trail who were cheated. How would those people get their money back? Aren't they entitled to get their money back? Do the people at the table currently get the money even though some of them just sat and haven't lost money to him yet?

In this scenario do you know which player you are?

(answer: you are not currently at the table)

That said, if you did play a bot, I hope you get something back. But to liken this situation to that of a real casino is a bad analogy (hurts your argument more), especially considering online they have better resources to figure out where the money came from than they would in a B&M.

[KurtSF]

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I am fine of being reimbursed a portion of the forfeited funds. I just DO NOT BELIEVE it will happen period.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think this is a pretty big sticking point. I mean, both recent bot investigation ended with the best possible resolution for FTPs bottom line. The message they are sending is if you can generate rake do whatever you want, but if you have a big balance, we'll just take that instead. WTF??

FTP said they will redistribute the confiscated funds, and they should.

[samsonian]

OP,

I call shenanigans on the $5K. You are always looking to trade like $50 Paypal here and $20 there in the trading forum. Big baller.

I assume you disclosing your screename will result in people seeing your $5.25 HU SNG stats on sharkscope.

[apefish]

Allen-
Obviously I hope you receive whatever prorated portion of Jap's confiscated money that you deserve.
As I have made it clear in the BeatMe thread, my position is it doesn't matter at this point if BeatMe was or wasn't a bot if FullTilt is going to confiscate the money and have no discussion about it.

What does matter at this point is them following up on what they said when they confiscated the funds and refund the victims.
I hope that happens.
Kurt's post makes extremely clear the points I have been making all along, that without proper victim compensation here both "bot cases" have one very important facet in common- a great result for FullTilt financially.

[ALLEN BOND]

Great response on FTPs part. It really makes my day:

Hello XXXX,

Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker.

FTPSean, the Support liaison to 2+2, recently posted an official
statement from Full Tilt Poker regarding bots in general and this case
in particular. You may find that response here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=10672206

[Edit/MH: "2+2ers,

The decision to seize funds in cases of collusion, fraud and other breaches of the site Terms of Service is never taken lightly. Seizure is reserved for cases when Full Tilt Poker is absolutely certain the account was directly involved in the wrongdoing. In this case, we are confident the correct decision has been made.

Instances of collusion or other unfair advantage require a comprehensive investigation that may or may not result in seizure of funds. Each situation is unique and handled on a case by case basis.

If our investigations team is 100% certain that there has been a violation of our Terms of Service, we make an assessment on the nature and method of the violation and determine if funds will be seized or if the account will be closed with funds being cashed out to the player.

If our investigations team is not 100% confident after reviewing a case, we will not seize the player’s funds. Instead, we cash out their funds and close the player’s account permanently. Obviously, when no evidence of a violation is found, we reopen the player’s account.

We are working to compensate the victims as quickly as possible. Please try and bear with us as we work through the large amount of data to ensure those who deserve some portion of the seized funds receive their share. We will streamline the process in the future to reduce the delay between a seizure and the subsequent redistribution of those funds to the appropriate victimized players.

Sean"]


Full Tilt Poker is committed to keeping our games free of bots,
colluders and other unethical activity. It is our responsibility to
ensure all our players enjoy their online poker experience in a fair
environment free of the threat of cheating, collusion, and bots.

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us again. We are
always here to help.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

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Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Hello,

It came to my attention that "JapInTheSack" account was a bot and was in
violation of Full Tilt Poker TOS. I have played this player numerous
times and have lost a substantial amount of money. You have previously
confiscated money from bot owners and were supposed to redistribute it
to victims.
I would like to know where is my portion of confiscated funds.

My account is: XXXXXX

[apefish]

I'll assume thats just a broken link at this point.
Given their track record I would think a couple weeks for Full Tilt to go over this and figure something out shouldn't be too hard to give.
However I think the emails from people to effectively notify them you wish to receive the refund are appropriate in the meantime.
Even more than their replies to the bot issues or to all the cashout problems that people have had- I think these refund issues are make or break time for FT.
If they cannot handle issues like these in a somewhat timely and accurate manner, they simply cannot handle issues.

[ALLEN BOND]

I am not longer going to play on FTP. Everyone else, enjoy.

PS any day.

[sethypooh21]

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I am fine of being reimbursed a portion of the forfeited funds. I just DO NOT BELIEVE it will happen period.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think this is a pretty big sticking point. I mean, both recent bot investigation ended with the best possible resolution for FTPs bottom line. The message they are sending is if you can generate rake do whatever you want, but if you have a big balance, we'll just take that instead. WTF??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. And, as I've said over and over in the other thread it's not like FTP has a groundswell of trust in their competence to overcome the apparent conflict of interest this creates...

[Hume]

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OSo if ALLEN lost $5k, and there are 200 players who lost a total of $150k to this bot (life-time winners need not apply), then ALLEN should get 5/150 or 3.3% of the confiscated funds.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT

And since the bots played exclusively HU it should be very simple for FTP to distribute the funds fairly.

[Bobo Fett]

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And I am still laughing at the fact that most of you are trying to turn it on me, like I am at fault another player was violating the rules of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone's turning on you, you just came across for a couple of posts like only a full refund would do, which is likely unrealistic. A partial refund seems reasonable.

It would probably help your reception here if you found a better picture of yourself. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]