Adults dupe teen into MySpace-assisted suicide

[MikeyPatriot]

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why are we arguing it? I know it's deplorable, I agree it's deplorable. It's not murder though

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No one is saying it's murder.

[kyleb]

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why are we arguing it? I know it's deplorable, I agree it's deplorable. It's not murder though

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No one is saying it's murder.

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I think Alobar is, but yeah, most others aren't.

[SoloAJ]

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dude remember middle school, jr high, high school? Picking on someone's weaknesses deliberately to cause emotional harm happens constantly, people with depression are not exempt... and yet most of them don't kill themselves.

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There's a difference between simple hazing and bullying between peers in middle and high school and deliberate, malicious acts of torment by a group of adults towards a pubescent girl.

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deliberate malicious acts of torment by a group of young adults towards pubescent girls and boys is abnormal? I hear you, I just think you underestimate how frequent this sort of deliberate, premeditated, malicious and cruel behavior occurs I guess

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He never said it was abnormal. This is where I think you're spinning the conversation wayyyy off. He just said that it is a different mentality that is producing the hazing. The key point of his statement was that adults were doing it.

You duders who think that the "difference isn't that big" must not be looking at it from the adult's side. To the victim it might be similar, but the levels of intent to harm (and the knowledge they should have of knowing better) are the focus here imo.

[Alobar]

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So what if the 16 year old boy was real and was genuinely interested in her and then had a change of heart?

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that's not malicious, this obviously was. Their intent and sole purpose was to cause her pain.

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Say he met some hot chick at school and in a fit of adolescent cruelty sent a bunch of mean messages to the old chick. Is he responsible for her death if she kills herself? Of course not.

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like has been said before, there is a big difference between a pair of 35 year old adults doing that to a 14 year old girl, and another adolescent doing that to her.

[mbillie1]

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Youth haze youth, sure. But I have no idea how so many of you don't understand how wrong it is for a parent to do it to another parent. I dig mbillie's posts usually be he is sooo far off in this one.

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I definitely think it's wrong, it's disgusting, repulsive, etc. I just don't think that the legal system ought to be constructed in a way that holds them criminally responsible for the girl's death, because of those gray areas. I also don't think that the legal system ought to substitute cash settlements (liability) in cases like this where a conviction is harder to get, although I recognize that the way the law is now that obviously they'd be held liable.

I realize I've been arguing confusedly... I hope this clears up what I mean a bit

[traz]

haha i'm pretty much on the same page as mbillie here. We're all pretty much on the same page (except maybe alobar :P), but we're discussing different aspects of the same thing

[gumpzilla]

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I think what he (and I) is contending is that the adults stop tormenting 14 year olds because they realize the effects that torment can have on a 14 year old.

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Huh? I don't think that's what he's saying at all. We're talking about peer interactions there. I also think it isn't very clear that the source of the torment matters very much to the 14 year old, but even if it did, this one would have perceived it as coming from a peer.

And again, writing off how unhappy and upset kids can be made by other kids (who will generally mob up to do it, which adults generally won't) as just "oh, that's standard kid stuff" seems to me kind of tone-deaf. Consider that in this case, if you think there's culpability, that the girl killed herself because of what she thought a teenage boy said.

[Alobar]

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why are we arguing it? I know it's deplorable, I agree it's deplorable. It's not murder though

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No one is saying it's murder.

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I think Alobar is, but yeah, most others aren't.

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Its not murder because they didnt kill her. That doesnt change the fact IMO that they are responsible for her death. Their malicious action resulted in her death. I dont care whatever legal term you wanna call it, they should be held responsible.

[mbillie1]

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He never said it was abnormal. This is where I think you're spinning the conversation wayyyy off. He just said that it is a different mentality that is producing the hazing. The key point of his statement was that adults were doing it.

You duders who think that the "difference isn't that big" must not be looking at it from the adult's side. To the victim it might be similar, but the levels of intent to harm (and the knowledge they should have of knowing better) are the focus here imo.

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I agree it's more wrong, ethically, for grown adults to do it than it is for kids to do it. I guess I was just using that to illustrate that it provides a difficulty in legislating this sort of thing, because there are gray areas. I obviously think what the parents did was repulsive. I just don't think that money should compensate the bereaved in this case, (although I recognize that the way things are now, it does or likely would if they went that way) because of the reasons above, etc

I realize re-reading these that I'm not being very clear, the bold is just to try to better illustrate my point

[mbillie1]

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haha i'm pretty much on the same page as mbillie here. We're all pretty much on the same page (except maybe alobar :P), but we're discussing different aspects of the same thing

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lol yes, and I definitely apologize for my expansive role in confusing the issue here