AK: 3-bet pot > turn TPTK and he keeps on firing... - Page 3

sh58 · #21 10-17-2007, 06:53 PM

why not just bet out on the turn a decent amount. you are taking a strange line

as played you have to call the river

tarheeljks · #22 10-17-2007, 07:03 PM

if he got to the flop w/AJ he's probably not folding. turn check is still better though.

Hince · #23 10-17-2007, 07:04 PM

I bet the turn because I always seem to get called by crazy [censored] is spots like this. If he folds, I make a note that I can bluff him on scare cards.

As played, I don't hate a check, but since we are calling an AI, why not bet it ourselves? There are a lot of hands that will check behind on the river that we beat.

sh58 · #24 10-17-2007, 07:05 PM

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I hate a turn bet. Turns your hand face up. After that ace falls your perogative should be trying to maximize the amount you can extract from Ax hands and 88-JJ type hands that feel they need to push you off the Q you might have when the A scare card falls. If he wants to stack off, you're gonna stack off regardless, so give bluff inducement a chance.

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ok so when you hit your hand you try to induce bluffs, but when you are behind you bluff at it. just doesn't seem right to me, it just isn't a balanced way to play.

people always say on these forums 'don't double barell bluff in 3bet pots because if they call on the flop they are not folding', so now you hit your hand you don't follow through.

does a flushdraw not hit the turn here as well. i understand where you are coming from but saying that you hate to bet this turn makes no sense to me at all

Mike MacIntosh · #25 10-17-2007, 07:06 PM

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why not just bet out on the turn a decent amount. you are taking a strange line

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Betting the turn is retarded, no offense.

NH op, call river, simply because we look weak and we have TPTK in a reraised pot, you'll see AQ/QQ sometimes, but Ax and bluffs often enough.

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totally agree here. hands we are way ahead of in villains range include TP hands (KQ/QJs/JTs - we don't know how loose he will call 3-bets here), and pocket pairs 88-JJ. maybe stuff like 87s depending on how loose he is.

we dont' lose much value by checking the turn because we're rarely getting value on the turn/river from most of his range. plus, if he's bad, he'll 'bluff' with his weaker made hands.

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Pretty sure this sums up why checking the turn is better than betting it. Basically we are going to get it in there when we are pwned anyway. So we are taking this line to maximize value from worse hands/bluffs that would otherwise fold to our bet.

sh58 · #26 10-17-2007, 07:10 PM

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I bet the turn because I always seem to get called by crazy [censored] is spots like this. If he folds, I make a note that I can bluff him on scare cards.

As played, I don't hate a check, but since we are calling an AI, why not bet it ourselves? There are a lot of hands that will check behind on the river that we beat.

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bingo.

i know if i had a hand that AK beats i would check behind every time. basically we are banking on villain being a retard.

tubasteve · #27 10-17-2007, 07:14 PM

i think this is perfect.

think about it, you would 2-barrel the turn here with air b/c it looks like you have AK still...this way people won't put you on it.

blah-blah-blah · #28 10-17-2007, 07:21 PM

vs. the avg 100NL player this is good. I still might shove over his turn bet since there will be a good chance he feels committed anyway.

pr0crast · #29 10-17-2007, 08:02 PM

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I hate a turn bet. Turns your hand face up. After that ace falls your perogative should be trying to maximize the amount you can extract from Ax hands and 88-JJ type hands that feel they need to push you off the Q you might have when the A scare card falls. If he wants to stack off, you're gonna stack off regardless, so give bluff inducement a chance.

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ok so when you hit your hand you try to induce bluffs, but when you are behind you bluff at it. just doesn't seem right to me, it just isn't a balanced way to play.

people always say on these forums 'don't double barell bluff in 3bet pots because if they call on the flop they are not folding', so now you hit your hand you don't follow through.

does a flushdraw not hit the turn here as well. i understand where you are coming from but saying that you hate to bet this turn makes no sense to me at all

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No, you kind of missed my point. I don't always induce bluffs when I hit and I don't always bluff when I'm behind. You have to consider your opponent's specific range in this hand, what he thinks your range is, and based on what his range is what the best way to extract from him is. You are generalizing a lot which is not a great thing to do.

Also, wtf flush draw could he have? Why are you even mentioning that?

What this guy said:

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Pretty sure this sums up why checking the turn is better than betting it. Basically we are going to get it in there when we are pwned anyway. So we are taking this line to maximize value from worse hands/bluffs that would otherwise fold to our bet.

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loosbastard · #30 10-17-2007, 08:06 PM

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No, you kind of missed my point. I don't always induce bluffs when I hit and I don't always bluff when I'm behind. You have to consider your opponent's specific range in this hand, what he thinks your range is, and based on what his range is what the best way to extract from him is. You are generalizing a lot which is not a great thing to do.

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I agree w/ this. I mean balance is great and all against good thinking players...but in this particular spot against this particular villain, I felt checking maximized value against his range.

FWIW A7 > AK. Nh sir.