Thoughts on a Hand

bearwiredpair · #1 07-30-2007, 12:46 PM

Hello all!
Been a member for a litte while but just started visiting daily a couple of weeks ago. (game needs help BAD) This is my first post so please feel free to correct any format issues.

Below is a hand I would like some thoughts on.

It is the first hand of a live 60.00 buy in NLHE MTT with 218 players.

800 chips blinds 10/15

Button is at seat 6

I am at seat 4

2 limpers to me and I look down at A Q off.

I limp. (I feel this is my first mistake.)

Seat 5, folds button limps, SB calls and BB checks.

6 players with 60 in the pot.

Flop: 7d Qs Jd

All check to me I bet 50.

Seat 6 calls all others fold

Turn: 6c

I want to stop possible draw and bet 200

Seat 6 quickly pushes all in.

As stated it was the first hand and I had no read on anyone. All players to the flop limped. After the push I put him on two pair not a draw as any combo of the flop was possible in an unraised pot.

osoverride · #2 07-30-2007, 01:02 PM

first mistake is correct. you should have never limped in a small blind structure when 2 limps past and action in front. your giving everyone an opportunity to draw off your hand for cheap. + you have to think you have a reasonably strong hand pre-flop y wouldn't you want to try and push out the D and gain position in the hand? second mistake i think is that after you opped to bet your top pair after limping you bet 2 much, you have to think that it is vary possible, with all the players in that your q might not be good. a half pot bet there would have seemed appropriate. now going to the turn you have 200 in the pot. if you really think the D is drawing form the 6c, i mean what would he have called with? or is the D one that will call with 3 cards to a straight? i like the bet on the turn but your setting your self up for a bluff the hole time. by not raising pre-flop you only have the information that he called 2 times and bet the turn. by the way how much was the all in? your question is a lil skimp.

PantsOnFire · #3 07-30-2007, 01:57 PM

You have 535 chips left and, if Seat 6 has you covered, could be facing a pot of almost 1100 which is great odds.

The bad thing about the unraised pot is that you will have trouble reading his hand. Any two pair is possible. But so are straight or flush draws or both. It could also be a mid pair and a flush draw. It could be QdTd, top pair and a flush draw. Could be Ad6d.

The good thing about an unraised pot is that he is not putting you on a hand like AQ. So he could feel pretty good with KQ or QT.

I would call here. The worst case scenario is a set. The second worst is Q7, Q6 or QJ although a raise on the flop would have been likely for any of these hands and the set. If the 6 helped him then it's likely 76 or J6, in which case you have outs.

I think there are enough times where this is a draw or a small pair and a flush draw, both of which you are beating.

osoverride · #4 07-30-2007, 02:07 PM

ok but like you said by not betting pre flop you have a hard time reading the players hand. and are you really saying if they started with 1,500 with 200 in the pot you would take a coin flip? sounds like a bad equity decision to me. its the first hand and if he keeps play so aggressively then there will be better spots to come. my suggestion would be to fold and get a better feel for you opponents before playing large pots with modist hands like AQ top pair. think about it on that board with blinds what they are you really cant beat anything he is representing. a KQ flush draw is 50/50 i wouldn't risk my T life on something like that when blinds are so small compared to your stack.

PantsOnFire · #5 07-30-2007, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok but like you said by not betting pre flop you have a hard time reading the players hand. and are you really saying if they started with 1,500 with 200 in the pot you would take a coin flip? sounds like a bad equity decision to me. its the first hand and if he keeps play so aggressively then there will be better spots to come. my suggestion would be to fold and get a better feel for you opponents before playing large pots with modist hands like AQ top pair. think about it on that board with blinds what they are you really cant beat anything he is representing. a KQ flush draw is 50/50 i wouldn't risk my T life on something like that when blinds are so small compared to your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you when you put it this way but that's not the way it happened. I did leave out my comments on the play up to the final decision.

However, these guys have 800 chips not 1500. And he is looking at 2:1 pot odds to call, not a coin flip. He has 265 of his 800 chips in this pot with a very good chance of being ahead in the hand. It would be a hell of a tight fold to me.

osoverride · #6 07-30-2007, 02:58 PM

what can he beat? any pair with a flush draw IS a coin flip its easy for a person to have a set or 2 pair. i say cut the loses and move on. just because your getting 2 to 1 docent mean its the right call or push.

bearwiredpair · #7 07-30-2007, 04:50 PM

My reasoning for not betting preflop is not worth explaining. It was a bad mistake. It wont happen again!

My thinking on the flop bet was that I didnt know where I was and a almost pot bet would clear that up, an attempt to correct my first mistake. I think a smaller bet would have had more callers and that would have mucked things up more.

His calling me made me think he was on a draw or middle pair. I thought a player with a stronger hand would have raised preflop from the button.

The 200 bet on the turn was to stop it right there. If he was on a draw or had middle pair he could not call.

The all in push threw me for a loop. No raise preflop again came to mind and if he had a pair he would have raised prefop. Q 7 or J7 would have reraised on the flop, No? it had to be 2 pair. 7 6 was my guess.

I folded. With only the river to come I opted for a better spot.

He lost money pushing. I would have checked and called a reasonable bet.

Thanks for the replies you have helped put my mind at ease.

PantsOnFire · #8 07-30-2007, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what can he beat? any pair with a flush draw IS a coin flip its easy for a person to have a set or 2 pair. i say cut the loses and move on. just because your getting 2 to 1 docent mean its the right call or push.

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe it's a big mistake to pass up a coin flip with 2:1 odds.

I'm going to cross-post this in the MTT forum and let those guys see if I'm wrong here.