putting together a reasonable system for 3bet pots

[DaycareInferno]

hey guys. i have been have been having some problems with 3b hands, because i find that its just really hard to make reasonable guesses at what my opponents are doing most of the time, because most of the time my opponents are lost themselves. sometimes its because they are panicky with that much money in the middle. sometimes its because they're weak, and sometimes its because they have no concept of showdown value. the problem is compounded a bit vs. bad players, and a lot of normally good players are pretty bad in 3b pots.

here is a pretty simple and common scenario in a normal raised pot hand. reg raises from the CO. fish on the BB calls. flop comes out. fish checks. reg bets. fish calls. turn checks through. fish bets river. what does fish have? well, he could have damn near anything, because he doesn't understand showdown value. half the time, he's just thinking "oh snap. he checked behind. my pair of 9s is good. time to bet!". the reg knows that, and will sometimes actually justify it by calling with a worse hand than whatever it is that the fish probably shouldn't be betting.

the same sort of effect happens a lot in 3b pots. so many players, even normally decent regs, just start spewing in 3b pots. they cbet when they shouldn't. they raise when they shouldn't. they call when they shouldn't, and as a result, you may do something you shouldn't do vs. a more reasonable opponent, which is fine. that's just how poker works. the problem is, you have a lot less information to go on in these pots, because any statistical information you have on an opponent is distorted. not only is a very small portion of your sample 3b pots, but people often play completely differently than they might in a normal raised pot, even in scenarios where stack ratios become about the same.

so, the question is, how do we go about constructing a solid framework for our play in such a random environment? obviously the answer depends a lot on personal ranges, image, playstyle, etc, but i'm just looking for some ideas for where to start, or maybe just some things to think about. i'd really like to improve in this area, because a couple of mistakes here and there can nullify a good session pretty quickly.

[dragonystic]

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hey guys.

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stopped reading there. gl with those 3b pots though.

[DaycareInferno]

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hey guys.

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stopped reading there. gl with those 3b pots though.

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gl with [censored] off

[Michaelson]

Firstly, if you don't pay attention to opponent tendencies and table dynamics, you're [censored] and will never do well in 3-bet pots.

Secondly, make sure you have a wide variety of lines to take postflop and that you balance them carefully. Sometimes c-bet good hands and bad, sometimes check good hands and bad. Same for floating, etc. The frequencies you choose will depend on factors specific to your overall game plan. When chosing between different lines to take, pay a lot of attention to calling ranges v bluffing ranges.

Once you've accounted for those sorts of factors, just try to do your best in the spots you find yourself in. There's no system.

[McBeef]

use your brain, works for me

[Michaelson]

You rule.

[DaycareInferno]

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $100.50
BB: $135.70
UTG: $108.20
CO: $97.40
BTN: $161.55

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $3.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $12.50</font>, BB folds, BTN calls $9

Flop: ($26) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $18</font>, BTN calls $18

second orbit on table. villain is 18/12/9 over 130 datamined with an AS of 18 and a wsd of 31. what range would you assign to villain, and what would be your plan with turn cards of either K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]or 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Michaelson]

77-AA are all possible, AQ, usually not KQ, but sometimes. I'd usually check/call Q and under turns, I think, but it's a hard spot because villain looks nitty.

BTW, your image is obviously very important as well.

[DaycareInferno]

button is 32/24 reg with as of 45
sb is 18/14/2.1 winning reg
hero is 19/16/4 reg who very seldomly squeezes. sb and hero have played in many games, most of which hero was very vanilla.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $176.45
Hero (BB): $224.90
UTG: $165.60
CO: $402.20
BTN: $123.70

Pre-Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $3.50</font>, SB calls $3, <font color="red">Hero raises to $15</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $11.50

Flop: ($33.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $25</font>, SB calls $25

Turn: ($83.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks

what range do you assigne SB, and what is your preferred course of action?

[DaycareInferno]

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77-AA are all possible, AQ, usually not KQ, but sometimes. I'd usually check/call Q and under turns, I think, but it's a hard spot because villain looks nitty.

BTW, your image is obviously very important as well.

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i will have a 19/16/4 vanillabot image unless otherwise noted.