2+2 Ask the PPA

[TruePoker CEO]

This is unnecessary.

All PPA needs to do is post here directly, and answer questions. It is FREE, except for the effort made.

A number of poker sites recognize this opportunity and have posted here in the past to address issues.(I get my share of crap here, but it comes with the territory and is a worthwhile exercise.)

If the PPA does really value input from here, then send someone to read, post, and DISCUSS issues here.

It IS just that simple.

[TruePoker CEO]

Amen.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
PPA should have a representative on the forums to give regular updates, or better yet have a forum of their own for these questions. Ask them why they don't.

There should be regular dialogue and communication. The lack of this is the big problem with the PPA. There are alot of very smart and creative people in poker to draw ideas from, and not to do that is a shame.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mentioned in a thread, sometime in the past few weeks, that I had stopped visiting this forum for months, but was very disappointed to learn that none of the people here who had been chosen to be State contacts by the PPA had been posting any updates.

I recall when the PPA made these choices that at least a couple of regular posters (or semi-regulars) indicated they had been chosen. But I guess even they have not been in a position to provide more information?

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
This is unnecessary.

All PPA needs to do is post here directly, and answer questions. It is FREE, except for the effort made.

A number of poker sites recognize this opportunity and have posted here in the past to address issues.(I get my share of crap here, but it comes with the territory and is a worthwhile exercise.)

If the PPA does really value input from here, then send someone to read, post, and DISCUSS issues here.

It IS just that simple.

[/ QUOTE ]


TP CEO,

Very nice post and 100% true. It really is that simple.

But let's note something important. Even if Mr. Pappas himself availed himself of this obvious opportunity, he is still just an employee of the board. That means he is not going to be in a position to answer any questions about the serious conflicts of interest and lack of expertise on the board, nor about why the PPA has a severely shortened list of goals that primarily cater to the business models of certain online poker sites, instead of the larger set of goals most members have. So all he is going to be able to speak to is grassroots tactics and PR (happy spin).

But it just so happens that there is a long time poster who is a member of the PPA board, Greg Fossilman Raymer. He could be the go between here and speak to the more important structural issues that have to do with the makeup of the board and the goals it subscribes to. But to my knowledge, never once has he posted about same in this forum. Though he doesn't post often in general, it is clear he reads the forums and keeps up with things, and has been gracious to talk about a lot of stuff in the past. And yet he doesn't about the PPA in this forum. Why is that? I would imagine it is because he realizes the truth of the criticisms that have been made here about the PPA board, and has too much integrity to lie to us by saying that isn't the case.

The bottom line is that the PPA has and has had, every opportunity to engage 2+2's posters and its site owners. But the reason they don't anymore is simply because they refuse to acknowledge the points that have been made in criticism of it, and have no intention of changing their focus on the sites and advertising media dependant on same being the PPA's de facto primary stakeholders, rather the broader membership.




(cue D$D's reply with repitition of: 1) more happy spin & 2) "we'll just have to see - time will tell")

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

(cue D$D's reply with repitition of: 1) more happy spin & 2) "we'll just have to see - time will tell")

[/ QUOTE ]

"I just knew this was going to hurt." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TruePoker CEO]

OP,

I took the time to raise a real substantive point about why your suggestion was unnecessary and how simple it IS for PPA to have a welcome presence in 2+2 forums ... i.e just post and respond substantively with respect to issues.

You could have addressed the substance of what I related, instead of some hissy-fit posturing because BluffThis was mean to you.

Sorry, but something is really stomach-churning about cutesy posts with smiley icons in a political discussion forum.

[Uglyowl]

Wow is everyone over-reacting to what D$D wrote, you would have thought he was going to Pappas calling himself "President of Twoplustwo".

You are right though that Pappas should be here, but wow is everyone over-reacting.

[TruePoker CEO]

Ugly ....

First, his post was counterproductive. Basically what D$D WAS doing was something that would gum up the works in the event that the PPA was really interested in someone posting something substantive here.

Secondly, I do not think anyone was over-reacting .... aside from BluffThis' always cogent asides about the flaws he sees in the PPA/CardPlayer/Tri-lateral Commission troika.

Tell you what, go back to D$D's first post in the PPA update and every single post of his since then. I will comp you a dollar for each substantive post.

With all due respect, D$D is not a substantive poster on the PPA. (If he WERE a PPA source, then why not take off the wraps ?)

Otherwise, his PPA posts smack of:

"geewhizgreatthingsarecoming butIcan'ttellyouwhat" because despite my access and contacts, it is "not my place".

I am always in favor of raising the standard of political discusion here, to maintain the levels reached with knowledgable posters like Nate, Mr. K, Berge and the October group that foresaw AND actively fought against the UIGE Act, and The Engineer and OBG today.

Sorry, but extremism in the defense of literacy is no vice, or something someone said like that about 40 years ago.

(To be fair, D$D does make substantive posts, in some areas, such as the IRS ... He can be articulate if he wants to be.)

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow is everyone over-reacting to what D$D wrote, you would have thought he was going to Pappas calling himself "President of Twoplustwo".

You are right though that Pappas should be here, but wow is everyone over-reacting.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he's not even a representative of the 2+2 community, let alone some kind of "official" representative. He's an anonymous guy with 36 posts who just showed up here a few weeks ago, and the whole thing is a little weird, quite frankly.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugly ....

First, his post was counterproductive. Basically what D$D WAS doing was something that would gum up the works in the event that the PPA was really interested in someone posting something substantive here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to avoid that at all costs!

I agree that 2+2 is an important forum. There are many people here with much more knowledge about poker and the finer points of poker legislation than I may ever have.

My only desire was to include in my conversation with John Pappas, MY sense, of both a vast untapped resource but also an problem area. The PPA's communications efforts on the web, at least from my point of view, are a major concern as an individual who would like to see real changes for poker in this country.

[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, I do not think anyone was over-reacting .... aside from BluffThis' always cogent asides about the flaws he sees in the PPA/CardPlayer/Tri-lateral Commission troika.

Tell you what, go back to D$D's first post in the PPA update and every single post of his since then. I will comp you a dollar for each substantive post.

With all due respect, D$D is not a substantive poster on the PPA. (If he WERE a PPA source, then why not take off the wraps ?)

Otherwise, his PPA posts smack of:

"geewhizgreatthingsarecoming butIcan'ttellyouwhat" because despite my access and contacts, it is "not my place".

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't speak for another. I am not an employee of the PPA. I think I've been pretty clear about my position as an individual as well as my intentions.

I don't think I can be any more transparent than I have been. I did not think it was in any way in the spirit of my original post to this thread to answer each and every post. I did reply to posts with comments or questions directed directly towards me.

Virtue or vice I don't know about being able to see both sides of an issue. I was told once it was because I am a middle child. Personally I blame it, as I do with all of my faults on the Jesuits! I'd put a smiley face there just to show humor incase it is lacking in the reading or writing, given the nature of internet communication, but that seems out of bounds in a political forum.......

[ QUOTE ]
I am always in favor of raising the standard of political discusion here, to maintain the levels reached with knowledgable posters like Nate, Mr. K, Berge and the October group that foresaw AND actively fought against the UIGE Act, and The Engineer and OBG today.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is my hope that I can communicate my experience in this sub-fourm with enough conviction to convince the PPA of my strong PERSONAL feelings that regular and open communication here is a nessecary vital part of any future plans.

You all each in your own way have helped me better define my PERSONAL sense of how to suscintently communicate my individual feelings on this matter.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but extremism in the defense of literacy is no vice, or something someone said like that about 40 years ago.

(To be fair, D$D does make substantive posts, in some areas, such as the IRS ... He can be articulate if he wants to be.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's called "faint praise". I really wish I had more of substance to offer. Unless I am severly restrained by any rules Mr. Pappas may put on our conversation, I'll be happy to report back my personal views of that conversation as an individual. I've been in D.C. too long to even suggest that someone said exactly something verbatum, only to find out I got left holding the end of a trial ballon. Best case senario I convince Mr. Pappas of the need for some sort of offical regular participation, hopefully directly with officals of this group. I sure that the offers of an open and professional dialouge are genuine.