another tipping question (sorry)

[GurneyHalleck]

Wow, I finally went to the trouble to sign up... This topic is always interesting.

For the record I am not a dealer (the uniforms usually look goofy and I have a low tolerance for dumbass poker players so this would not be the career for me!) I am however known as a "good tipper."

This isn't as tough (or as expensive) as you might think. When I used to play 1-2 I generally used the following guidelines:

1) The dealer always gets a dollar. Even if you raise and take down the massive 3-dollar blinds, give the dealer a chip. They only deal so many hands per hour and need a small amount per hand. This is your most important tipping issue because dealers will remember a dollar tip from you regularly more than the occassional large tip. (It has to do with positive reinforcement, I suppose).

2) As the pots get larger, tip on up to $20 (Usually only on 1000+ pots. This would not be uncommon in the 1-2 games in Tunica as cash plays and the games are usually uncapped.) The upside rule is that I almost never tip over 25 no matter how large the pot. The funny thing is, most dealers don't worry about it. If you just took down a 3k pot and they only get 20 bucks, they still feel like you took care of them.

3) It seems that there is some unwritten "10%" rule. I have never understood whether that means that you should tip 10% of the pot or 10% of the profits. I know of no sane poker player who has ever done either, but I suspect that rule is spread by the dealers anyway!!!

4) As a side note: If you get the chance, make sure you tip the brush 5 bucks or so. Once they remember you, it is amazing how seats will magically appear!!

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I don't do this because I'm a nice guy. Dealers who respect you will make you a lot of money. They will steer you to good games, soft play you when they are propping, tell you about good and bad players in the room, and let you know which cocktail staff are available (just kidding!)

People who don't understand dealer psych 101 are often confused. Three months ago I was in a 2-5 game at the Shoe in Tunica and a really quiet college kid took down a 1200 dollar 3-way pot. He waited two hands later to tip the dealer a red chip and obviously thought that he was "the man!" (This dealer was stunning, just to make the poor kid even more confused!) Just after that I won a whopping $16 pot and tipped $2. The dealer made it very clear that she appreciated my tip a great deal and you could just read the look confusion on the kid's face. ("Wait, I tipped more and you didn't smile that way at me!!!")


The short version of the post is to always make sure that you tip something.

It pays, trust me!

[TacitMike]

When playing at foxwoods last weekend, I heard someone at the table ask why the dealers pool their tips. The dealer responded, "the guys who play in the high limit games tip in the thousands, and that just wouldn't be fair to those of us who deal 1/2 or 2/5."

I just chuckled.

[Poshua]

[ QUOTE ]

2) As the pots get larger, tip on up to $20 (Usually only on 1000+ pots. This would not be uncommon in the 1-2 games in Tunica as cash plays and the games are usually uncapped.) The upside rule is that I almost never tip over 25 no matter how large the pot. The funny thing is, most dealers don't worry about it. If you just took down a 3k pot and they only get 20 bucks, they still feel like you took care of them...

I don't do this because I'm a nice guy. Dealers who respect you will make you a lot of money. They will steer you to good games, soft play you when they are propping, tell you about good and bad players in the room, and let you know which cocktail staff are available (just kidding!)

[/ QUOTE ]

More power to you if you want to tip several dollars a pot; you're a nice guy and I'm sure the dealers appreciate it very much. However, there's no way this is a +EV decision for you; whatever extra money you make because the staff likes you is absolutely getting swamped by the extra you're spending on tips.

[GurneyHalleck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2) As the pots get larger, tip on up to $20 (Usually only on 1000+ pots. This would not be uncommon in the 1-2 games in Tunica as cash plays and the games are usually uncapped.) The upside rule is that I almost never tip over 25 no matter how large the pot. The funny thing is, most dealers don't worry about it. If you just took down a 3k pot and they only get 20 bucks, they still feel like you took care of them...

I don't do this because I'm a nice guy. Dealers who respect you will make you a lot of money. They will steer you to good games, soft play you when they are propping, tell you about good and bad players in the room, and let you know which cocktail staff are available (just kidding!)

[/ QUOTE ]

More power to you if you want to tip several dollars a pot; you're a nice guy and I'm sure the dealers appreciate it very much. However, there's no way this is a +EV decision for you; whatever extra money you make because the staff likes you is absolutely getting swamped by the extra you're spending on tips.

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I would say that we will have to politely disagree on this. My key point is to make sure that you should tip a dollar per hand no matter what. That will get you a great deal of respect and cost you little. As to whether tipping slightly more is truly +EV I would concede that it is probably break even, but honestly the extra 6-8 dollars per hour I spend in tips I truly believe can be returned to you in many ways in a poker room...

On a side note, if you regularly play in a 100+ table room or play in a room where the dealers pool their tips with table gaming (St. Louis, anyone?) you will unfortunately gain little...

[oatmeal769]

I play 3/6 and 4/8 in LA. I figure a good wage for a 'career' job considering most of them don't have benefits, etc. is about $25 - $30 an hour. Coincidentally, this is about how many hands a dealer deals, (20 - 40 / HR) so I've been told.
I tip $ 1 on any pot I drag, regardless of size. If it's HUGE I might tip 2 or 3, but I think any dealer will say he'd rather make a little off every hand rather than a bunch off a few big ones. I just look at it as part of the drop, I've worked as a tipped employee most of my life, and know how important it is.

[Bluegrass Poker]

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I play very little live poker, but when I do it's 1-3 NL at the Argosy in Indiana. Based on what I've observed, it seems that it is customary to tip the dealer after every hand regardless of pot size. Most all players even throw the dealer a dollar after taking the blinds uncontested.

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I can't believe no one has commented on this? I didn't know there was such a thing as 1/2 or 1/3 No Limit where you could take the blinds uncontested! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I need to head up to Argosy instead of Caesars next time.

[AaronO]

Hah! Good point, Bluegrass. It's about 1 pot in 100 that doesn't see the flop!

And in response to the earlier point about a 10% tip, I thought that was only applicable to tournaments, and even then very rarely adhered to. And I have never, ever seen anyone tip more than $3 at the tables I play on. Maybe that's the thing, though. Tip frequently, but not as much?

On the point of EV, I always assumed this was the reason for being a little more stingy with tips. It's hard enough to make money at poker. Once you factor in the rake and everything else, tipping can really eat into your profit. Interesting that not many people have mentioned tipping in that context.

[Poshua]

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On the point of EV, I always assumed this was the reason for being a little more stingy with tips. It's hard enough to make money at poker. Once you factor in the rake and everything else, tipping can really eat into your profit. Interesting that not many people have mentioned tipping in that context.

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I guess. The rationale for tipping dealers is not EV maximization, so I don't think "It's -EV" is a compelling reason not to tip.

[AaronO]

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I guess. The rationale for tipping dealers is not EV maximization, so I don't think "It's -EV" is a compelling reason not to tip.

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True enough, but tipping certainly affects profit, so it seems like you could discuss the frequency and amount of tipping in terms of how it affects your expectations of profit.

[SDone]

I usually throw in a dollar for any pot. The most I've ever tipped was $10, and that was for a $500 pot, plus the dealer was really cool.