Live @ Bike 5-5 blind: AK with 50 BB Stacks v Min-re-reraise.

[Rick Nebiolo]

This hand came from this Tuesday Nights Live At Bike web-cast. The game was the smaller 5-5 blind game with a $300 to $500 spread buy. The lineup is tighter and tougher than the normal Bike game at this level, but I play it anyway to get some practice against better opponents and watch my mistakes on the archived video feed later.

At 1:15 into the game I’ve barely played a hand beyond the flop and my stack is $480. Opponent is Joe, a decent player with some mix and aggressive to his game who has played me before. He has me covered by a few hundred.

Since the game is mostly “the better” regulars and in danger of playing record tight for Live at Bike, eight of us have agreed to put in a live straddle every hand. So we are really playing with three blinds and a $10 BB, meaning the effective stacks are mostly in the 50 times the BB range (very low for this game).

After the straddle is posted Joe is UTG+2 (UTG+3 without the straddle) and makes it $40 to go. All fold to me in the cutoff with AKo. Often I’d smooth call with AK and position but this time I reraise $80 to $120. All fold to Joe who tanks a bit, then he min-re-reraises $80 to $200.

I have $360 left. If I call the pot will be about $415 after drop and I’ll have $280 left. If I go all-in, the pot will be $695 and Joe will only need to call $280 more. Therefore I realize I have almost no fold equity here (i.e., I can't get Joe to fold anything in his range).

I put Joe on a range of AK, AA, KK, and perhaps QQ, JJ or TT played a bit cute with the pot committing min re-reraise. Before his re-reraise, I think he put me on a similar hand range, perhaps adding AQs and 99. Of course, Joe's min-re-reraise often indicates a huge hand, but Joe knows I know that and could be getting cute. Still folding (fearing AA or KK) is an option.

Let’s assume my initial raise to $120 is not the point of the thread. When Joe min re-reraises to $200 as noted above, what is my best play BTF?

If I chose to smooth call $80 more, what is my game plan post flop?

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

I know its pathetic getting no answers to your post and putting up a follow on anyway but here goes.

After Joe's min reraise to $200 I considered all options but decided to push allin. There was a reasonable chance Joe was using a miniraise out of position to represent strength of a huge hand (AA or KK) but I thought with these effective stacks he could have a pair of tens through queens or an AK or even AQ.

Joe in fact had aces. Commentators Bart and Boston made it sound like that or KK was the only hand I could put Joe on. Much deeper stacked I lay down of just call.

Result was I sucked out when the board came x-x-T-Q-J.

~ Rick

[luckychewy]

i haven't read your 2nd post yet but you need to decide now whether or not you're gonna felt this hand. personally i think in full ring games against people who play mostly live, a 4-bet is usually a huge hand. i think including jj/tt in his range is both optomistic and unrealistic.

okay i just read your 2nd post and it seems like bart/dave also agree he has a slim 4-bet range. anyway, nh. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
i haven't read your 2nd post yet but you need to decide now whether or not you're gonna felt this hand. personally i think in full ring games against people who play mostly live, a 4-bet is usually a huge hand. i think including jj/tt in his range is both optomistic and unrealistic.

okay i just read your 2nd post and it seems like bart/dave also agree he has a slim 4-bet range. anyway, nh. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for responding; I was feeling left out. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If his range is this narrow, what a play to add to a wider range with these stack sizes. IOW, with the best pair (or KK) still min reraise out of position. If opponent calls with an underpair like QQ or JJ he still doesn't have odds to snap off a set relative to the big pair. Without the big pair the min reraise looks like a big pair (to a better hand reader than me) and get opponent to often lay down BTF or just call the min reraise and lay down to the typical C-bet if he misses the flop.

~ Rick

[DoubleTwentyOne]

[ QUOTE ]
i haven't read your 2nd post yet but you need to decide now whether or not you're gonna felt this hand. personally i think in full ring games against people who play mostly live, a 4-bet is usually a huge hand. i think including jj/tt in his range is both optomistic and unrealistic.

okay i just read your 2nd post and it seems like bart/dave also agree he has a slim 4-bet range. anyway, nh. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm a regular in that game, and I agree with chewy's assessment that adding JJ/TT to his range is quite optimistic. I've played against Joe many times and have seen nearly all episodes of LATB's 5-5 games he has played in, and I do not remember a single time where he played JJ/TT in such a manner. I would think QQ is probably the minimum you're up against in this spot (even that could be considered optimistic), with no PF fold equity if you push, you'd be better off folding every time.

[BobboFitos]

hey rick,

im a gambler at heart and have no qualms pushing this in pf.

i read results, and i wouldnt sweat it that much. (running into aa.. esp sucking out =) ) its just 50bb. not realy much of a mistake pushing so short w/ big slick

[uconnsports1]

these sketchy 4bet minraises seem to be AA alot. like u said u have little FE by pushing and if it does get in u will either be racing at best or way behind so moving in seems -EV to me.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
hey rick,

im a gambler at heart and have no qualms pushing this in pf.

i read results, and i wouldnt sweat it that much. (running into aa.. esp sucking out =) ) its just 50bb. not realy much of a mistake pushing so short w/ big slick

[/ QUOTE ]

For me it was hard to get away from big slick with only $360 left after my reraise and $280 left if I called Joe's min re-reraise (leaving a $415 pot). I treated this game as a super short stack game since the effective blinds were 5-5-10 with all but one of us straddling every hand. By pushing I get to see all five cards and the dead money seemed significant.

I think there were only about five rebuys the whole show, nobody got deep. If we were much deeper I call and get killed if I flop "good". Because I was a luckbox I ended up +$815.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm a regular in that game, and I agree with chewy's assessment that adding JJ/TT to his range is quite optimistic. I've played against Joe many times and have seen nearly all episodes of LATB's 5-5 games he has played in, and I do not remember a single time where he played JJ/TT in such a manner. I would think QQ is probably the minimum you're up against in this spot (even that could be considered optimistic), with no PF fold equity if you push, you'd be better off folding every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I'm not quite as regular (I split my time between just about every club) and I'm not super observant, a great weakness. I do think he's good enough to adjust his play in the future and pitch a "change up" with a weaker hand.

~ Rick

[TonyLA]

Hi Rick...

I'd agree with most of the others - pushing against this type of opponent in this specific situation with AK is going to be -EV.

Even though I have first-hand knowledge of the incident, I wasn't surprised at all that Joe turned over AA - it was either that or KK, and I'd be stunned if he wound up flipping over QQ or anything less. Almost equally as stunned as I was when you turned over AK. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The 5-5 game plays so strightforward most of the time. If you're going to take the initiative to re-raise with AK (you're still not committed to the hand at this point), and you have a player who is willing to re-raise and essentially commit to the hand pre-flop, AK is garbage 95% of the time - this guy has AA or KK. You got the information you wanted from the re-raise you made - remember you're indicating that you have a big hand to Joe - and he's still willing to not only stay in the hand, but come over the top of you. It should have been an easy fold - unless you're running as hot has you'e been lately. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

- T