We win (AP Scandal v. 27)

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Story has broken on CardPlayer and pokernews.

pokernews article

CardPlayer article

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd just like to say that Absolute Poker's Official Statement makes them sound like the biggest morons in the universe, especially since it comes right after the summary of evidence against them,

[tereg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CardPlayer article

[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

hah....nice catch

[/ QUOTE ]
I also think "adaments" and "adamant" are a pretty apropos homonym. Or is it homophone? I can never remember.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's homophone.

[StepBangin]

[ QUOTE ]
Josem, in a previous post, N82 said something along the lines of how he might never feel comfortable ever publicly saying what he "really" did. He also says something about messing around with THESE guys doesnt sound like a good idea.

What does he mean by "messing around"?

Who are "These guys" and why doesnt it sound like a good idea?

Can you elaborate at all about what he means by "What I "really" did"?

This whole scandal is just mind blowing and extremely interesting to me.
It also amazes me how you guys figured everything out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im quoting this to get it past all of the [censored] worthless post that has nothing to do with the scandal.

[R*R]

The evidennce is so overwhelming that anything but an absolute surrender by Absolute would keep this thing going alot longer than they would want. I do believe that the one area thay may consider trying to cover up is that they new the moment this broke what was happening. They don't want people to know that eventhough many believe it is true. I really think they are going to blame it all on former executives(such as Scott Tom- if indeed he is former executive as they have stated).
The real sad thing about this is that they definitely were willing to cover this up originally and that cannnot be disputed.

[Pokeraddict]

Going back to Scott Tom. It would make total sense that he would have a position outside of AP that would have more ot do with the holding companies. The spam associated Pokermachine not only spewed endless AP spam but there was a good chunk of UB spam too. If his job was only associated with AP and had nothing to do with UB why would he be spamming UB too? This assumes that Pokermachine is him but I think the evidence is overwhelming that it is.

AP's statement needs to include every member of their current and former staff brought up in these investigations and where they stand today. They also need to include any account associated with them at AP or UB. Also, as mentioned in other forums, their statements need to be placed on their website in a very obvious place on their index page or in their software as part of the popup. Any statement made to the forums but not placed on their site will just add to their coverup as I am sure there are players that were cheated that have no idea this is going on.

[DonkeyKing]

I'm confused... why are ppl happy about this? This doesn't include a 100% audit by an independent party confirming that AP is safe. This is just a step to see if this will shut the community up. What a fkn load of BS.

[x2ski]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This isn't enough, don't settle for this guys unless they are forthcoming with full details and willing to submit to a 100% independent audit. Don't let them buy you off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not realize how bad it would be for online poker and by extension all of us, if this thing is pushed any further?

[/ QUOTE ]

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
adanthar never said this.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but Nat did. I'm not going to look for the link, but he said he had several sources verify that the person who sent the excel spreadsheet is no longer employed at Absolute, and to make of it what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was told this point blank by a credible source. I won't say anything more than that because I can't jeopardize my source.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
Josem. Would you be kind enough to comment on my last post regarding the "ABS steamroller email".
Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure.

[ QUOTE ]
According to Zach6668 post of his friend's email his friend did not ask about steamroller, he asked about the email address. So that would mean ABS suppport took the jump from email address(stom@fiducix.com) to player name(steamroller). This still seems odd again given that original email appears not to have asked about steamroller specifically. I mean if this could be explained it could be very good otherwise it has to be viewed with some sketicism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if the support person thinks that stom@fiducix.com and steamroller are the same person, it would seem reasonable to use the names interchangeably.

It also depends on the wording of the question in the original email to AP - they may have picked up on customer's wording and simply used it back.

[ QUOTE ]
If we could have original email from friend asking about steamroller than this would be incredible as it would be another confirmation that Scott Tom is steamroller and it would also indicate that even regular support new he was steamroller. To me this could be one of the best pieces of evidence yet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this.

[ QUOTE ]
Josem, in a previous post, N82 said something along the lines of how he might never feel comfortable ever publicly saying what he "really" did. He also says something about messing around with THESE guys doesnt sound like a good idea.

What does he mean by "messing around"?

[/ QUOTE ]

While I'm happy to answer questions as best as I can, it would seem to me that if you want to know what N82 meant in a post that you ask N82.

I interpreted that post to mean that the people who are accused of these things are people who have a lot to lose. Given that this whole allegation boils down to breaking rules, it seems reasonable to be careful to not antagonise people who have no apparent interest in playing by the rules.

[ QUOTE ]
Who are "These guys" and why doesnt it sound like a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys = the cheaters.

[ QUOTE ]
Can you elaborate at all about what he means by "What I "really" did"?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what he means.

[ QUOTE ]
This whole scandal is just mind blowing and extremely interesting to me.
It also amazes me how you guys figured everything out

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think I figured out much. Nat + Adanthar and the whistleblowers did much more of that.

[ QUOTE ]
Same offer but directed more at Josem next time he's in Canberra.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks - I'm up there about 10 weeks a year.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Zach6668]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In this email why did they refer to steamroller? Wouldn't the normal response have been "stom@fiducix.com belongs to the Absolute Poker Staff". Unless the $300 transfer referred to steamroller. Is this the case? For those who have not seen the original explanation of this email look here for happyhappyhappy post:

]http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...art=22&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the guy that contacted support was playing at the table with a guy named steamroller... And steamroller asked him to beta test a new client. He was following up with support to find out if steamroller was in fact an AP employee.

[/ QUOTE ]

So this seems to be incredibly damning evidence that Scott Tom is steamroller and no one is talking about this much? I guess everyone is focusing on the upcoming Absolute announcement.
I am still a little skeptical about the email as he asked ABS support about an email address not steamroller yet they replied referring to steamroller. Seems a bit odd.
Can the guy that posted original email clarify this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe he also asked about Steamroller since the guy who was sitting with him at a live table told him that's what his account was. AP verified that in the e-mail when he requested verification presumably to ensure that he wasn't getting scammed.

[/ QUOTE ]


According to Zach6668 post of his friend's email his friend did not ask about steamroller, he asked about the email address. So that would mean ABS suppport took the jump from email address(stom@fiducix.com) to player name(steamroller). This still seems odd again given that original email appears not to have asked about steamroller specifically. I mean if this could be explained it could be very good otherwise it has to be viewed with some sketicism.

If we could have original email from friend asking about steamroller than this would be incredible as it would be another confirmation that Scott Tom is steamroller and it would also indicate that even regular support new he was steamroller. To me this could be one of the best pieces of evidence yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I've been talking to the FCPer who originally brought this up.

Here's the short version:

His friend, who wishes to remain nameless, was approached on the table, by STEAMROLLER, to betatest AP 8.0, or something similar to that. The person said his name was Scott Tom, and even credited (not transfer, or deposit) $300 to his account to prove it, and I believe sent a follow up email from the STOM email address.

The screenshot is from an email that AP sent in response to his questioning of it being legit or not. Apparently, this person does not have records of any emails he sent to AP, so I don't know exactly what he asked AP.

Cwik, the FCPer, summed it up pretty well in our AIM convo just now, so I'll let him explain how it happened:

(AIM names have of course been changed)

cwik (3:05:48 AM): I donno I don't have a great answer for that
Zach (3:06:10 AM): ya, me neither
cwik (3:06:44 AM): he said he didn't have any other the emails he sent
cwik (3:06:49 AM): only the replies
cwik (3:07:14 AM): so he didn't have his orginal msg anymore (or couldn't find it)
cwik (3:07:34 AM): but I 100% believe him
Zach (3:07:35 AM): ya
cwik (3:07:49 AM): like the way the conversation went
cwik (3:08:16 AM): I let him read wacos orginal msg
cwik (3:08:24 AM): then updated him with some of the stuff
cwik (3:08:41 AM): and said that they linked scott tom to it
cwik (3:08:47 AM): and he said he knew that guy
cwik (3:08:57 AM): we talked about that for a bit
cwik (3:09:07 AM): and then moved on like it was weird but not a big deal
cwik (3:09:11 AM): then a bit later
cwik (3:09:21 AM): he read dan druffs summary
cwik (3:09:30 AM): and instantly remembered the steamroller name
cwik (3:10:09 AM): like, the way it happened
cwik (3:10:25 AM): he couldn't really (well it would be wierd for him to make it up)



Another thing to note, is that the email in the screenshot does have a reference number in the subject line. There has to be a way to trace that, right?


Additionally, cwik wanted me to include the original chat log from AIM when they discovered this:

cwik(3:46:04 PM): are you still playing online?
Friend(3:46:08 PM): dam.n lazy bum, hehe,
Friend(3:46:34 PM): yeah, slowing getting back into it. I realize i burned myself out in denver.
cwik(3:46:57 PM): what site are you playing on?
Friend(3:47:13 PM): i was just playing recklessly, but i'm o.k. now i think.
Friend(3:47:17 PM): just absolute poker.
cwik(3:47:35 PM): have you heard about all the site that has gone down at AP?
Friend(3:47:48 PM): huh?
cwik(3:47:56 PM): I'm assuming no
cwik(3:48:03 PM): do you have a lot of time on your hands?
Friend(3:48:05 PM): nope, ap is down?
Friend(3:48:13 PM): sure, what's up.
Friend(3:48:30 PM): do you mean [censored], instead of site?
cwik(3:48:31 PM): trying to think of the best way to catch you up
cwik(3:48:46 PM): err heh
cwik(3:48:48 PM): yeah [censored]
Friend(3:49:01 PM): let me guess on thing.
Friend(3:49:11 PM): something about winning when you rebuy more....
Friend(3:49:50 PM): anyways, starving, getting food in kitchen, be back in 3 min. just type, what u gotta type.
cwik(3:50:21 PM): well, trying to find a link that has a summary
cwik(3:51:51 PM): well
cwik(3:52:00 PM): this link is 22 pages
cwik(3:52:07 PM): but basically has everything
cwik(3:52:14 PM): in it if you scan threw it
cwik(3:52:16 PM): http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poke...owtopic=110060
Friend(3:55:49 PM): ****, no food here at parent's place
cwik(3:56:02 PM): I need foods too
cwik(3:56:25 PM): anyways
cwik(3:56:45 PM): you might wanna conssider pulling money outta AP, donno for sure
Friend(3:57:01 PM): when did this started?
cwik(3:57:10 PM): couple days ago
Friend(3:59:21 PM): hold on, gotta read this. do i read the post or the link?
cwik(4:00:02 PM): lol, there is a lot of [censored]
cwik(4:00:15 PM): I would read a lot of the links (most are to other forums)
cwik(4:00:20 PM): and then come back
Friend(4:00:24 PM): k, brb
cwik(4:00:32 PM): cause in the orginal forum I linked you
cwik(4:00:44 PM): people pretty much update everything that is going on
cwik(4:00:48 PM): from the other sites
cwik(4:01:13 PM): just read like the orginal post in the other links
Friend(4:08:09 PM): so i'm confused.
Friend(4:08:26 PM): so some guy crack ap system or something?
cwik(4:08:47 PM): if you read on, more info keeps comeing out
cwik(4:09:03 PM): but yes I believe 100% this guy cheated
Friend(4:09:24 PM): when i kept reading, all i see are people giving their opinion.
cwik(4:09:30 PM): heh
cwik(4:09:34 PM): yeah, well
cwik(4:09:43 PM): just skip hrough
Friend(4:09:46 PM): so i should cash out?
cwik(4:09:49 PM): to either other links
cwik(4:10:06 PM): or people quoting other people form other forums
cwik(4:10:10 PM): I donno, up to you
Friend(4:11:20 PM): it's really hard for me to get cash back in nowaday online. are you worry the site might shut down? playing against people that see your hole cards? ring or tourney? or somebody hacking into your account to steal money? which will u be concern about.
cwik(4:11:37 PM): well
cwik(4:11:59 PM): I think actually getting cheated is semi unlikely
cwik(4:12:08 PM): cause I don't play high enough to make it worth their time
cwik(4:12:20 PM): but I do think it is possible AP could shut down
cwik(4:12:26 PM): idonno though
cwik(4:12:34 PM): basically what happened
cwik(4:12:43 PM): is they figured out this guy cheated in the tourney
cwik(4:13:04 PM): and there was also talk about some guys cheating in cash games about a month ago
cwik(4:13:11 PM): they had wierd stats
cwik(4:13:19 PM): where their agression factor on the river
cwik(4:13:23 PM): was infinent
cwik(4:13:32 PM): so they either always bet or fold the river
cwik(4:13:42 PM): whcih is just almost impossible
cwik(4:13:48 PM): and to be profitable
Friend(4:13:54 PM): what would transfering money to UB to? aren't they the same site.
cwik(4:14:08 PM): anyways
cwik(4:14:18 PM): AP has denied anythign has happened
cwik(4:14:36 PM): but people have traced the guys IP adress back to costa rica
cwik(4:14:38 PM): also
cwik(4:14:43 PM): at the table obvervinig
cwik(4:14:50 PM): as an acount
cwik(4:14:53 PM): with the #262
cwik(4:14:59 PM): #363
cwik(4:15:15 PM): most peoples acount numbers are in the 6 or 7 digits
cwik(4:15:28 PM): so this was one of the orginal accounts on AP
cwik(4:15:31 PM): maybe a test account
cwik(4:15:51 PM): the ip of this account was the same as POTRIPPER
cwik(4:16:04 PM): so basically the thought is it is a superuser account
cwik(4:16:09 PM): that can see the hole cards
cwik(4:16:28 PM): however AP has denied that anythign has happened
cwik(4:16:37 PM): or even could happen on their site
cwik(4:16:43 PM): which is pissing off all the players
cwik(4:16:48 PM): cause they know it is true
Friend(4:17:03 PM): man, this sucks, i was just getting on a roll there.
cwik(4:17:18 PM): so the most recent devlopment
cwik(4:17:36 PM): (you read the orginal p5.com link,right?)
cwik(4:18:02 PM): where crazymarco explains how he got the excel file with the HH;s?
Friend(4:18:30 PM): yeah.
cwik(4:18:35 PM): ok
cwik(4:18:37 PM): well in that
cwik(4:18:48 PM): they got all the plays ip and email adress too
cwik(4:18:52 PM): well
cwik(4:19:04 PM): they have traced the email and ip
cwik(4:19:10 PM): back to scott tom
cwik(4:19:17 PM): who used to be the CEO of AP
cwik(4:19:46 PM): so that is pretty big [censored]
Friend(4:19:49 PM): dude, i met that guy online before.
cwik(4:19:56 PM): really?
Friend(4:20:11 PM): yeah, he try to convince me to test out their new software for them.
Friend(4:20:14 PM): seriously.
Friend(4:20:35 PM): before this new 8.0 thing, he just wanted some feedback on it.
Friend(4:20:43 PM): he had my email and stuff
cwik(4:20:57 PM): just outta curiousity
cwik(4:21:01 PM): what was his emial?
Friend(4:21:12 PM): hold on...
Friend(4:21:44 PM): stom@fiducix.com
cwik(4:22:05 PM): humm
cwik(4:22:21 PM): differnt email then the one he had on here, but I bet it is the same guy
Friend(4:22:49 PM): he was giving me some [censored] about how AP rank players, and sent me a email with a file of the new ap software.
cwik(4:22:50 PM): how did you met him?
Friend(4:23:11 PM): he just came into a 5/10 short game and started talking to people, and i'm somewhat talkative.
cwik(4:23:28 PM): oh, I thought you ment in real life
Friend(4:23:35 PM): i even email support at AP about if he was legit.
Friend(4:23:45 PM): no, not real life, just online.,
Friend(4:24:08 PM): the guy had access to all my info, which was creeping...
cwik(4:24:50 PM): what did AP support say?
Friend(4:25:43 PM): AP said he was legit and was authorize to give me credits to my account.
Friend(4:26:22 PM): he more or less, was trying to prove to me that he was with AP, so he put roughly 300 into my account.
Friend(4:26:52 PM): and it wasn't a transfer or a deposit, but a credit adjustment(AP have 5 different dept in the cashier)
cwik(4:27:22 PM): he was trying to pay you to test the software?
Friend(4:27:40 PM): he just wanted feedback/ from players i was guessing.
cwik(4:28:01 PM): what kinda [censored] did he know about you?
Friend(4:28:32 PM): email, location, first name, deposit history, i think.
cwik(4:28:39 PM): humm
cwik(4:28:44 PM): yeah
cwik(4:28:59 PM): so that guy might ahave stole roughly $700,000
cwik(4:29:24 PM): maybe more though, that we don't know about at this point
Friend(4:29:36 PM): who owns AP?
cwik(4:29:54 PM): UB just bought em
Friend(4:30:30 PM): i have a UB account, i guess, i can transfer half or 3/4 of my money onto there. You think that'll be safer?
cwik(4:30:40 PM): I really donno
cwik(4:30:53 PM): I seriously was going to deposit like 2 days before
cwik(4:31:04 PM): and even made an epassporte account to do wo
cwik(4:31:05 PM): so
cwik(4:31:31 PM): loaded money, and was just waiting for it to clear before I deposited on there
cwik(4:31:40 PM): but now I donno if I should or not
cwik(4:32:06 PM): you need to make a pxf.com account to watch these
cwik(4:32:09 PM): but it is free
cwik(4:32:11 PM): and quick
cwik(4:32:17 PM): http://www.pokerxfactor.com/HA90370/2_20071014_190711/2
cwik(4:32:27 PM): but those are all the HH's in a replayer
cwik(4:32:45 PM): if you wanna see his play
cwik(4:32:53 PM): http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/...howtopic=44393
cwik(4:33:04 PM): and that is a really good write up of what might have happened
Friend(4:33:37 PM): but only tourney right? i mean, who's going to do that in 1/2 and 2/4 NL and 3/6, 5/10limit
cwik(4:33:51 PM): that was a $1,000 tourney
cwik(4:33:54 PM): however
cwik(4:33:57 PM): other accounts
cwik(4:34:06 PM): that were either probaley him
cwik(4:34:13 PM): or someone else that could do the same thing
Friend(4:34:18 PM): that sucks.
cwik(4:34:31 PM): were tearing up the high stacks game on AP
Friend(4:34:30 PM): hey brb, need to go pick up my nephew from school.
Friend(4:55:11 PM): hmm
Friend(4:55:25 PM): weird, just reading that article, Steamroller was the person i was talking to.
cwik(4:55:49 PM): serious?
Friend(4:56:06 PM): yup. i forgot his name, but the second i saw that, i remember that
cwik(4:56:07 PM): wow, I wish you had PT back then
Friend(4:56:27 PM): had a picture of some guy only
Friend(4:56:41 PM): he was playing like a maniac though
Friend(4:57:02 PM): bought in 200, and ended up with around 250 before i left.
Friend(4:57:23 PM): went down as low as like 40 bucks i think
cwik(4:57:48 PM): what limit were you playing?
Friend(4:57:54 PM): 5/10 Limit
cwik(4:58:21 PM): anything else interesting you might remember?
Friend(4:58:50 PM): not really, at that time, just thought he was an action player....raising with anything
cwik(4:59:07 PM): you mind if I post any of this on the forum?
Friend(4:59:27 PM): doubledrag actually sounds familiar, but i only play .50/100 NL there
Friend(4:59:42 PM): don't care, just leave both my name out of it..
cwik(4:59:52 PM): yeha, no problem
Friend(5:00:05 PM): don't want them to come after my account!
cwik(5:00:12 PM): lol, for sure
cwik(5:07:32 PM): hey
cwik(5:07:47 PM): do you have any proff that the guy was steamroller?
Friend(5:07:54 PM): nope
cwik(5:08:07 PM): but you sure it was?
Friend(5:08:35 PM): kind of, i'm pretty sure of that name, but don't take my word for it.
cwik(5:08:45 PM): humm
cwik(5:08:57 PM): any idea of when this happened?
cwik(5:09:19 PM): you got an email from him right?
Friend(5:09:36 PM): dude, i'm old, bad memory, probably like 4-5 months ago.
Friend(5:09:50 PM): yeah, the one that was on top
cwik(5:10:06 PM): was it the same day you emialed support to see if he was legit?
Friend(5:10:25 PM): yeah, but all those are gone.
cwik(5:10:31 PM): can you check the date of the email
cwik(5:10:37 PM): you deleted the email?
cwik(5:13:35 PM): are you checking?
Friend(5:13:42 PM): yeah, hold on
Friend(5:14:03 PM): got an email, where ap said steamroller was part of their team.
cwik(5:14:19 PM): can you forawrd that to me?
cwik(5:14:29 PM): zachhirst@gmail.com
Friend(5:14:45 PM): k, if i send this to you, and [censored] goes down, and ap is down, and I lose money, you owe me some MULA

cwik(5:14:53 PM): lol
cwik(5:15:08 PM): I don't think this is gonna change the outcome of AP at all
cwik(5:15:09 PM): however
cwik(5:15:16 PM): if it is proven that he cheated you
cwik(5:15:20 PM): you might get some money bacl
cwik(5:15:22 PM): back
Friend(5:15:52 PM): didn't cheat me, i was on the othe end!!! haha...i made money from him at table, and he put money into my account!.
cwik(5:16:00 PM): lol
cwik(5:16:08 PM): if you don't want me to post it
cwik(5:16:10 PM): I wont
cwik(5:16:17 PM): but I would like to see the emial anywya
Friend(5:16:34 PM): i only have my sent message left...everybody else is cleaned up