I can’t stop playing poker

[Foolgizaki]

I went through a similar phase, although I was playing high limits and losing quite a lot of money. To limit this, I stopped playing online for about a year and only played live games with friends about once or twice a week, while really focusing on the aspects of the game that are important (ie: making good decisions, playing in favorable games).

By eliminating the online portion of my poker play, I was able to see each time that i played as entertaining and a time to not only improve my game, but spend time with friends, rather than in front of the computer.

After this, I went back to online poker and only played a few SNG's a week, or some small stakes cash games for fun against friends online. I realized that my new perspective of the game yielded some good returns. I could make money long-run by playing the stakes that suited my abilities.

I would suggest limiting either hours played or money wagered (because it sounds like you dont want to quit entirely). Another option would be to only play live games, where you can more easily see tangible wins and losses.

You can also get some friends to deposit online and have them sort of monitor your play, or only play when they are online. This may help.

Good Luck and if you get on tilt, just close the window and take a breather!

[Doc T River]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say that playing poker is "screwing up" my relationship or my course. I just said that I think I've been playing too frequently.

I imagine there are plenty of people on this forum who play poker more than I do - i mean we love the game, that's why we're here right? - so why do some of you think I should quit playing entirely?


Thanks for the replies.

I think taking time out is a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do some people think you should stop playing? Well, look at what you called this thread. Look at how you said it is interfering (sorry, cannot spell the word you used originally so have to substitute one I can spell) with your studies and your love life.

I know what you mean about playing a lot because I went through the same thing. I disovered how much I liked poker during my first trip to Vegas about three years ago and when I got back home, I found out about free bar poker. I started playing when I could and that turned into seven days a week. My poker lifestyle crept into work (where I would talk poker with anyone who would listen) and my relationship. She was not happy that I was gone from home so much. Work was not too happy either as not everyone appreciated hearing my stories and I have a loud voice.

I played so much poker that for two years running, I was the league's top point earner for my state.

I don't play as much in bars for a number of reasons. One reason is that, in a manner of speaking, I had been to the top of the mountain twice and it was time for someone else to shoot for where I was and time for me to go on to other things. Those other things being online poker and a return to casino poker. But I don't play seven days a week online.

Admittedly, another reason I don't play as much in bars is that the league contracted in this area and there are not as many places to play and not as many sessions as in the past. But even if there were, my feelings of been there/done that would kick in.

I got lucky in my relationship because I got her interested in poker and nine times out of ten if I am sitting in a bar playing poker, she is right there playing at another table.

As to work, I realized they had a point and am much more circumspect as to who I talk to about poker.

I did not read these books before making my decision to cut back, but for the mental aspects of the game, might I recommend Your Worst Poker Enemy by Alan Schoonmaker. Besides the mental aspects, one thing I really liked was the recommended reading list at the back of the book. It breaks the list into the stages of a poker player and gives guidance as to a reading order within each section.

Another book I would recommend is The Poker Mindset by Ian Taylor and Matthew Hilger. Besides the mental aspects, it delves into more of the monetary aspects, too.

As to how I suggest you quit, let me tell you a little story first. I used to chew my fingernails when I was growing up. It got so bad that my mother bought a product that tasted really wretched whenever I tried chewing my fingernails. Did that make me stop? No, I got used to the taste and went on chewing. My mother tried several other products and techniques, but nothing worked.

Do I chew my nails to this day? No, I finally stopped. How? I decided to. In other words, I put my mind to the fact that I was going to stop and I did it.

What's the point? The point is that you can read all the books you want, you can get all the advice you want, but until you want to stop; until you make the decision to stop, you will continue with the same behavior. Short of being arrested for some crime and incarcerated resulting in an involunatary exile from the necessary components of your addiction, only you can make you stop. And it sounds like it is an addicition. It may not be as bad as alchohol or drugs, but it is an addiction nonetheless.

You may not want to admit it, but it does sound like you have a problem. I do not agree that you should get the sites to lock your accounts because that amounts to an involuntary exile and if you exile yourself, it needs to be voluntary. That is you need to be able to play if you so choose even though you plan on not playing for awhile. I would leave the accounts unlocked and simply resolve to not play or at least not play as much.

If you find that you cannot make yourself stay away from the sites, then have them lock your accounts, but give yourself a chance to do it voluntarily first.

I hope this guidance helps and sorry that I started rambling. I have a tendency to do that when I am tired.

[RyverRat]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the point? The point is that you can read all the books you want, you can get all the advice you want, but until you want to stop; until you make the decision to stop, you will continue with the same behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good words there Doc. Agreed with the above 100%

[RyverRat]

[ QUOTE ]


My reason for posting is to get advice from anyone who can suggest a good time management system for poker playing or resources on will power/motivation that they have found useful? Anything of that kind. Anyone else had similar problems and how did you deal with it?

Thanks,


[/ QUOTE ]

I think my motivation came when i started tracking my winnings/losses. By using a tool like pokertracker I started really keeping an eye on my decisions as it would affect my end of week/month winrate. I started looking into the depths of my play and looking for the leaks.
By fixing the leaks & increasing your winrate the bankroll started building. The motivation is to move up the levels. To improve my game to eventually play the bigger stakes. That is still my motivation. I also play within a strict bankroll. This prevents me going bust and losing my motivation.

[pepitannikita]

Hi, dblhtink~~

I'm a 53 year old female with a passion for poker also. I understand how "addicting" it can be. But I am using that term loosely and casually in much the same manner as people might say they are so "depressed" when in actuality, they are simply feeling bluesed-out and down.

However, this does not discount the fact that there are very REAL clinical depressions and gambling addictions.

So let's set aside the tangledness for a moment of the debate on whether poker is actually "gambling" per se. Doesn't matter. It CAN be a very real form of addiction, playing poker. While I might sit at the poker tables with some other regulars and make self-deprecating remarks about "us lowlife degenerate poker addicts," and we chuckle about it, I have come to realize that there truly ARE some unfortunate people who are very much caught up in the throes of a poker addiction. While I am not sadistically "targeting" any specific individuals, I do make money from them, as I do from the hotshots who sit down and in their self-introductions, brag how they are so good.

It's a weird thing, this "addiction" process. How do you determine if something that you are so tuned into and just ENJOY so much, is it simply a wonderful, exciting PASSION or is it something nagging at you that might be the beginning indications of a PROBLEM?

It may be that you're flip-flopping in your mind during this period of time, thinking sometimes that maybe you need to chill out (as you've expressed in your initial post here) and at other times, thinking that it's not so bad, after all.

And you know, it is possible that both are true. I don't know you, I don't know your personality style and individual characteristics. Perhaps you are the type of person who does throw himself head-over-heels into various projects and interests and this current poker fascination is quite typical of your approach to other activities in the past.

There are so many subtleties to a poker addiction, however. One of which is the online poker thing which is what it seems has so captivated you. So there's the draw of the poker thing itself but there's the additional "stickiness" for lack of a better term of the actual computer gaming experience which in and of itself can be "addicting" to a degree. I mean, people got hooked on DR. MARIO games, playing for hours and hours and hours, seemingly unable to stop. If you research the literature, you will find many case studies on similar things.

So there's something about the "draw" and "lure" of the online poker experience. Then you really do just dig poker. Well, then there's the money thing also. While you're not at the level of making your college tuition, nevertheless, you ARE winning some bucks. So there's also the enticement of the greed factor and the thought of perhaps getting really GOOD at this game.

You say you've been playing for about a year during all your free time and that you keep detailed records. How many hours have you played in a year? How does this fit into your life? Do you lose sleep or wake up in the middle of the night and play? Turn down opportunities to do other things that you would otherwise normally have done but didn't want to be away from online poker in order to do it?

You can probably Google search to get a list of the "warning signs" of gambling addiction.

Some of the htings you say which sound like there might be trouble include the statement that it has been affecting your college work and time with your fiancee. The statement that you "love money too much" might just be an expression but it also sets off a warning flag. The thing you speak about, the "excitement of the fix" is a well known phenonomen (arrrggh, can't spell it) of addiction. Not only in substance abuse/chemical addiction but in what are known as "process" addictions, of which gambling, or poker playing can certainly be. Shoplifting or even simply shopping, is also another example where the "high" of the "fix" comes into play. The fact that you state you don't think you COULD quit is also troubling.

Here's my "advice." See if there are any Gamblers Anonymous meetings in your area. During the one month period of time during which you VOLUNTARILY attempt to cold turkey off poker playing, go to some of these meetings-- a LOT of these meetings. Not necessarily to introduce yourself as an addict. But to listen to other people's stories.

Sure, there's likely to be some old farts sitting around, people who lost jobs, homes, families, etc. and all sorts of people to whom you cannot relate. But don't go there looking for the differences. Go with an open mind. Listen and look for the similarities. See if anything anyone says strikes a chord and resonates with you.

If there's no GA meetings in your area, call an 800 number and talk to folks there. Or try some other 12 step support group-- they all have meetings some of which are closed and some of which are open. "Closed" meetings mean you have ot be one to go there-- for example, only alcoholics go to AA closed meetings. But anyone can attend an AA open meeting and that's where nurses, or therapists or neighbors or journalists or whomever is curious can attend. And there are STEP meetings where people work on practicing a program and there are SPEAKER meetings. You want to listen to other people's stories by going to SPEAKER meetings. DOn't laugh but perhaps some SEX ADDICTS ANONYMOUS meetings might be helpful. These are people with PROCESS addictions also and you'd be surprised how often you could listen to someone talk who perhaps is obsessed with porn and jerking off dozens of times a day and substitute playing poker in your mind and find that the types of difficulties in the addictions are very similar.

You don't have to decide if you're a poker playing addict or how well that label fits or doesn't fit. You just want to find out whether you might have a problem. If you are UNABLE to VOLUNTARILY refrain from ANY poker playing for an entire month cold turkey then it's not definite but very highly likely that there's something there in the "addiction" arena.

If you do manage to "keep clean" so to speak for a month that doesn't mean you're "home free" as many people can "white knuckle" their way through a withdrawal and sustain a brief absence from their primary drug of choice.

See what happens when you go back, after having set clear guidelines for yourself on limits in hours per day/days per week as well as monetary boundaries.

This is a very long post. Most of the posts I will ever make in any of these forums probably will be. So I don't need to hear all the TL-DR comments which I will likely get from others.

Just trying to offer you some feedback on how things seem to me. If there's anything in here which helps, that's great. If not, well then, just take what you can use and leave the rest alone.

Best wishes to you and please post back in a couple of weeks and let us know how it's going for you and what you've decided.

[metsfan88]

I haven't read all of the responses but you are definitly addicted. When poker starts affecting your outside life, it starts to be a problem. If you don't think you are addicted, try to stop playing for 30 days. If you can do that then I would say you are fine.

[jmitchell42]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, dblhtink~~

I'm a 53 year old female with a passion for poker also. I understand how "addicting" it can be. But I am using that term loosely and casually in much the same manner as people might say they are so "depressed" when in actuality, they are simply feeling bluesed-out and down.

However, this does not discount the fact that there are very REAL clinical depressions and gambling addictions.

So let's set aside the tangledness for a moment of the debate on whether poker is actually "gambling" per se. Doesn't matter. It CAN be a very real form of addiction, playing poker. While I might sit at the poker tables with some other regulars and make self-deprecating remarks about "us lowlife degenerate poker addicts," and we chuckle about it, I have come to realize that there truly ARE some unfortunate people who are very much caught up in the throes of a poker addiction. While I am not sadistically "targeting" any specific individuals, I do make money from them, as I do from the hotshots who sit down and in their self-introductions, brag how they are so good.

It's a weird thing, this "addiction" process. How do you determine if something that you are so tuned into and just ENJOY so much, is it simply a wonderful, exciting PASSION or is it something nagging at you that might be the beginning indications of a PROBLEM?

It may be that you're flip-flopping in your mind during this period of time, thinking sometimes that maybe you need to chill out (as you've expressed in your initial post here) and at other times, thinking that it's not so bad, after all.

And you know, it is possible that both are true. I don't know you, I don't know your personality style and individual characteristics. Perhaps you are the type of person who does throw himself head-over-heels into various projects and interests and this current poker fascination is quite typical of your approach to other activities in the past.

There are so many subtleties to a poker addiction, however. One of which is the online poker thing which is what it seems has so captivated you. So there's the draw of the poker thing itself but there's the additional "stickiness" for lack of a better term of the actual computer gaming experience which in and of itself can be "addicting" to a degree. I mean, people got hooked on DR. MARIO games, playing for hours and hours and hours, seemingly unable to stop. If you research the literature, you will find many case studies on similar things.

So there's something about the "draw" and "lure" of the online poker experience. Then you really do just dig poker. Well, then there's the money thing also. While you're not at the level of making your college tuition, nevertheless, you ARE winning some bucks. So there's also the enticement of the greed factor and the thought of perhaps getting really GOOD at this game.

You say you've been playing for about a year during all your free time and that you keep detailed records. How many hours have you played in a year? How does this fit into your life? Do you lose sleep or wake up in the middle of the night and play? Turn down opportunities to do other things that you would otherwise normally have done but didn't want to be away from online poker in order to do it?

You can probably Google search to get a list of the "warning signs" of gambling addiction.

Some of the htings you say which sound like there might be trouble include the statement that it has been affecting your college work and time with your fiancee. The statement that you "love money too much" might just be an expression but it also sets off a warning flag. The thing you speak about, the "excitement of the fix" is a well known phenonomen (arrrggh, can't spell it) of addiction. Not only in substance abuse/chemical addiction but in what are known as "process" addictions, of which gambling, or poker playing can certainly be. Shoplifting or even simply shopping, is also another example where the "high" of the "fix" comes into play. The fact that you state you don't think you COULD quit is also troubling.

Here's my "advice." See if there are any Gamblers Anonymous meetings in your area. During the one month period of time during which you VOLUNTARILY attempt to cold turkey off poker playing, go to some of these meetings-- a LOT of these meetings. Not necessarily to introduce yourself as an addict. But to listen to other people's stories.

Sure, there's likely to be some old farts sitting around, people who lost jobs, homes, families, etc. and all sorts of people to whom you cannot relate. But don't go there looking for the differences. Go with an open mind. Listen and look for the similarities. See if anything anyone says strikes a chord and resonates with you.

If there's no GA meetings in your area, call an 800 number and talk to folks there. Or try some other 12 step support group-- they all have meetings some of which are closed and some of which are open. "Closed" meetings mean you have ot be one to go there-- for example, only alcoholics go to AA closed meetings. But anyone can attend an AA open meeting and that's where nurses, or therapists or neighbors or journalists or whomever is curious can attend. And there are STEP meetings where people work on practicing a program and there are SPEAKER meetings. You want to listen to other people's stories by going to SPEAKER meetings. DOn't laugh but perhaps some SEX ADDICTS ANONYMOUS meetings might be helpful. These are people with PROCESS addictions also and you'd be surprised how often you could listen to someone talk who perhaps is obsessed with porn and jerking off dozens of times a day and substitute playing poker in your mind and find that the types of difficulties in the addictions are very similar.

You don't have to decide if you're a poker playing addict or how well that label fits or doesn't fit. You just want to find out whether you might have a problem. If you are UNABLE to VOLUNTARILY refrain from ANY poker playing for an entire month cold turkey then it's not definite but very highly likely that there's something there in the "addiction" arena.

If you do manage to "keep clean" so to speak for a month that doesn't mean you're "home free" as many people can "white knuckle" their way through a withdrawal and sustain a brief absence from their primary drug of choice.

See what happens when you go back, after having set clear guidelines for yourself on limits in hours per day/days per week as well as monetary boundaries.

This is a very long post. Most of the posts I will ever make in any of these forums probably will be. So I don't need to hear all the TL-DR comments which I will likely get from others.

Just trying to offer you some feedback on how things seem to me. If there's anything in here which helps, that's great. If not, well then, just take what you can use and leave the rest alone.

Best wishes to you and please post back in a couple of weeks and let us know how it's going for you and what you've decided.

[/ QUOTE ]


great post! i thinks a lot of people could use some sage advise like this.

[MikeBandy]

[ QUOTE ]
I’m playing so much now that it’s beginning to impinge on my time with my fiancée and is affecting my college work.

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple years ago, someone wrote about a gambling addiction. It's extremely long. No, it's several times longer than you visualized when I said, "extremely long." If you're interested, it's located here .

[klezmaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
I’ve been playing poker (almost entirely on the internet) for just over a year. I spend pretty much all my free time playing. I’m playing so much now that it’s beginning to impinge on my time with my fiancée and is affecting my college work.

[/ QUOTE ]

This means it's time to quit. Before you screw up your relationship with your fiancee. Before you screw up your education. Get your life back in balance and your priorities back in line. These things: your fiancee and your education, are so much more important than playing poker that they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. And if any of these things should be sacrificed for the others, then it's the poker that should be dropped.

Good luck to you

--klez

[pepitannikita]

[ QUOTE ]
A couple years ago, someone wrote about a gambling addiction. It's extremely long. No, it's several times longer than you visualized when I said, "extremely long." If you're interested, it's located here .

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, Mike, thanks for the link. I just spent a LONG time reading the entire thread and posted a reply at the end (for which I shall likely get some flames for having caused it to get bumped up to a seemingly "new" status again).

Wish the people had chosen to LISTEN to the man's story rather than to spin things off as they did as I suspect he had a lot more to say. Neverthless, it (the thread itself) is intriguingly indicative of the mess and havoc which addictions foster not only in the lives of those whom are directly afflicted but to countless other bystanders who sometimes get in the way and are hit by the fallout.

In that, too, there is a story which is told, a lesson to be learned, to those who have ears willing to listen and eyes willing to see.

Thanks for having provided the link as upsetting as the experience of reading the whole thread was for me, I neverthless appreciated it.