Mixing it up with 85s

[feelixthegreek]

My local B&M 1/2 game. Usually it's a loose action fest, but for nearly two hours very little has transpired in the way of big pots. Example: Five limpers to me in SB. I make it $20 on a pure steal and pick up the pot uncontested. This is a rare occurence, and the fact that I even tried it should give you the context for the game conditions.

Okay, several hands later, I'm the third limper in from the CO with 85c. I'm expecting a mutliway 6-7 way flop with good position, but BB makes it $20 to go, and gets a caller. Given my position, I decide to call. To the extent that my game is "known" by the regular players, 85s is not a hand anyone would put me on, so I want to see a flop with big implied odds. I am $400 deep and PFR has me covered.

3 to the flop ($60+) and it's 7c4d3c. BB leads out for $45, other player folds. I make it $125. BB thinks, asks what I have left ($255), then decides to call.

With $310 in the pot, turn is (7c4d3c)5h. BB leads out for $205. I push my remaining $255 and get called.

Leaving aside the preflop decision. My question has to do with the size of my raise on the flop. Given the odds and my outs, $125 commits me to the pot even if PFR comes over the top. So should I have overbet to increase my fold equity? I'm also asssuming that my turn push is automatic given that I've seemingly picked up as as many as 5 additional outs.

[tminus]

from the looks of it you carry a tight image here so i love to see a suited gapper in CO. i dont however like the flop reraise at all.

two things jumped out at me "for nearly two hours very little has transpired in the way of big pots" and "$125 commits me to the pot." he's building a big pot and its not the time to try and push him off it. i put BB on an overpair or 77. smooth call the flop and check-fold turn.

i also think pushing the turn is stenchy. there's very little FE here at all

[feelixthegreek]

I wasn't thinking fold equity on the turn. I was thinking I have as many as 17 outs getting about 2.5 to 1. I felt when I pushed that I wes a 3-2 dog against an overpair, which I figured to be his most likely holding.

[jungy121]

you weren't thinking about fold equity? so you knew that he'd call the turn raise so you raised anyways? that's horrible.

[feelixthegreek]

Was I supposed to hold back my last $50 and fold the river in a $700 pot?

Arguing against my call is understandable, but the difference between calling and raising on turn seems negligible.

[tminus]

hold back $50? you mean $255?
either way your flop reraise made you really vulnerable on the turn, you really priced yourself into a gamble. i like lagging it up but im just not this agro

[benlj21]

This is really similar to another hand that was posted, I think it was 75s in the other one. I know that (almost) nobody folds overpairs in 1/2 live, and I have played in these games. With normal $200 stacks this is a fold preflop, you can only call if you expect to have a little fold equity with your big draws. On the flop, I would just shove. If he has AK, he will fold to any raise most likely, and if not he has an overpair and he's not folding at any time. Therefore, if he's gonna call you, make him do it now when your draw has maximum pot equity, and before he can get away from his hand if a club comes off. Make sense?

[feelixthegreek]

That's where I thought my biggest mistake was, not raising big enough on the flop once I committed myself to the hand. My thinking at the time was leaving enough behind for a turn bluff. I was expecting passivity on the turn, so his lead out surprised me. I could have gotten away had I not paired up on the turn, which more than priced me in.

The other mistake may be playing the hand at all, but since the effective stacks were $400 and not $200, it seemed like a good time to go LAG.