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#1
08-21-2006, 09:37 PM
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3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
seat 8 is loose, plays about half his hands, and will bet his board on 4th almost every time, regardless of his hole cards. Villain is loose-passive (almost 45% VPIP in 1000 hands) but i have him booked as a slight winner in those hands.
Did I go too crazy on 4th to lay down the hand? Should I lay down the hand, or is he still drawing? I went for the time honored tradition of when in doubt, call it down. 7 Card Stud High ($3/$6), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $1 (converter) 3rd Street - (1.33 SB) Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls 4th Street - (3.33 SB) Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___folds Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___folds Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___double-raises___double-raises Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___double-raises___calls Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___folds 5th Street - (7.17 BB) Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls 6th Street - (9.17 BB) Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls River - (11.17 BB) Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Total pot: (13.17 BB) 
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#2
08-21-2006, 11:07 PM
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Re: 3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
Never mind the 9T suited, - what on earth were you doing raising the king who caught the ace's bet? Even if he's a liar and only has A K and 2 babies you're not exactly dominating. I like your play if you actually had any four low cards in that spot, but your deception is useless in this spot playing aggressively.
Deception is nice, but discression is a bit more fitting in this case. Fold that on 4th under those circumstances, and other one way hands when you're not a big favorite to win your side, and watch your winrate go up noticeably.
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#3
08-22-2006, 12:40 AM
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Re: 3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
its not hi/low.
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#4
08-22-2006, 12:48 AM
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Re: 3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
4th looks pretty bad. I believe folding in this spot is pretty clear.. The problem is the T9s probably has a very strong draw, even heads up you are probably 50-50 at best.. When you couple that with the fact that a guy with AK on board bet and callers in the middle, your hand has very little value in the multi way pot...
Having said that you had the best possible outcome on 4th, getting it heads up against a likely draw. I like the rest of the hand, although I'd consider raising 6th and taking a free showdown if you miss.
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#5
08-22-2006, 03:33 AM
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Re: 3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
I think I might actually raise 6th here for a free unimproved showdown hopefully. If he 3bets I dont think we have to worry about Queens up being good and we can be content that made a 7-J. If he just called the 6th street raise I am bet/folding Queens up on the river, bet/calling trip Queens (I'm a sucker) and bet/3betting an Ace high flush and probably other flushes too.
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#6
08-22-2006, 08:29 AM
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Re: 3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
[ QUOTE ]
its not hi/low. [/ QUOTE ] Well then, that changes everything - nevermind what I said. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Gotta stop reading this board so late at night with tired eyes. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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#7
08-22-2006, 10:51 AM
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Re: 3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
First of all, I'm a little confused about the way you posted 4th street with "double-raises" by both you and the villain. Since there are no pairs on board at this point, I assume these are actually just single-raises.
Regardless, I agree with other posters that your re-raise of villain's raise seems exorbitant, especially if your read on him as "loose-passive" is accurate. At any rate, when he re-re-raises, I would no longer automatically put him on a "draw." I'd now have him either rolled up with 999 or with Ts and 9s. I wouldn't put him on trip Ts on 4th street because of the dead T that seat #1 had. (This is subsequently confirmed on 5th street when you get the case T.) The only draw to me that makes any sense for him to be playing so aggressively on 4th street would be a four-card straight-flush. So given my reads on him, when he catches the Jh on 5th street, I think at best you are looking at him having two pairs and at worst he has a made straight with a flush draw. I just don't believe a "loose-passive" player would bet this aggressively with anything less. Therefore, if you had just called on 4th street, this hand would be easy to get away from on 5th. However, given your spewing on 4th, I certainly can understand your reluctance to fold it on 5th. Sometimes though in the middle of a hand you just have to admit to yourself that you f---ed up on a previous street and that you're going to have to get out of a bad situation before it gets worse. It looks to me like this was one of those times.
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#9
08-22-2006, 04:28 PM
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Re: 3/6 Hi: Pot too big to fold?
I have no idea what the double raise thing is. That is just what the convertor spewed out.
The point of the raise was that I felt I should at least call 4th at the time, so might as well put in another small bet and try to thin the field. I certainly was not thrilled with the re-raise, but at least the rest got the results I was looking for. Even though the result of the play was ok, I am still not sure it was the right move, and the feeling seems to be that it was not. Do you see a fold on 4th though with buried Queens? As I said I think you can discount the original bettor's hand a good % of the time. The initial raise by villain just said to me that he was getting value with a 4 flush. The results are mildly interesting and I will post them when I get home and have access to the convertor.
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#10
08-22-2006, 08:51 PM
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RESULTS
No monsters under this bed...
River - (11.17 BB) Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Total pot: (13.17 BB) Results Total pot $79 Main pot $76 Rake $3 Seat 3: [4c 4s Jh Ts 9s 6s 2h] (A Pair of Fours, Jack high) Hero: [Qd Qh Kc Th 4h 3h 2d] (A Pair of Queens, King high) That still doesn't make raising 4th correct neccesarily or calling it down either. I liked the play of trying to thin the field on 4th, but I guess the point of others is, how often will that actually work? I guess it is somewhat game dependent...
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