20/40 stud hi - how's this?

PoorLawyer · #1 07-31-2006, 12:00 AM

Taking a shot at the 20/40 and this guy is paying off but is a little nuts.

Should I bother playing the hand at all? Should I take over the betting? Villain is stuck about 4 grand and is completing almost every hand...VPIP around 80% at the time. Plays more around 55% at a full table.

7 Card Stud High ($20/$40), Ante $2, Bring-In $5 (converter)

Seat 1: $1,313.75
Seat 3: $1,141
Seat 4: $806.54
Seat 5: $628.25
Hero: $922

3rd Street - (0.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (2.75 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (2.38 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (4.38 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

River - (6.38 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

Total pot: (8.38 BB)

Results (in white):<font color="white">

Total pot $335 Main pot $332 Rake $3

Seat 3: [Qs Qc Td 6c 5h 3d 2s] (A Pair of Queens, Ten high)

Hero: [Ts Th Ad Qh 8h 7c 2d] (A Pair of Tens, Ace high)

</font>

BeerMoney · #2 07-31-2006, 01:41 AM

seems fine to me, I probably check the river though. Not saying betting is wrong, though.

One thing to consider is that you will likely find a better spot. I imagine you were a little frustrated he lost 4k and you didn't have much of it?

frappeboy · #3 07-31-2006, 02:26 AM

I think the river bet is bad.. No one is gonna fold a better hand than tens so its not a bluff. Therefore you must be betting for value, and I doubt your opponent will call enough to make it worthwhile. Also, if your opponent was on some kind of draw, or has an unimproved smaller pair, you want to give him the chance to bluff here.

MRBAA · #4 07-31-2006, 09:55 AM

I probably dog it on sixth and river here -- I'll check call both against a nut, but I'd just as soon get a free card when I don't improve. Even a nut probably has a little something when he calls fifth. I make the call on third every time in late position against a nut -- ace kicker is a beautiful thing and heads up you're probably well ahead. Personally, I often let nuts lead the betting in hands like this all the way unless I improve.

PoorLawyer · #5 07-31-2006, 10:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine you were a little frustrated he lost 4k and you didn't have much of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he steamed off about 7K at tables I was at over the weekend and I don't think I saw a dime. He was the king of sneaking in a reload so it always looked like he was doing well until you actually looked at PT stats.

Bartholow · #6 07-31-2006, 10:26 AM

Easy play, I'd probably go ahead and reraise on 3rd. If you really mean he's "paying off" then betting the whole way is good. If he's playing like a maniac early but then calming down I could see checking on 6th or the river.

PoorLawyer · #7 07-31-2006, 10:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I probably dog it on sixth and river here -- I'll check call both against a nut, but I'd just as soon get a free card when I don't improve. [ QUOTE ]

This is what I was thinking at the end of the hand.

[ QUOTE ]

Even a nut probably has a little something when he calls fifth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really thought I was ahead in the hand. I was surprised when I saw his pocket pair that he didn't raise me at some point in the hand. I kept betting thinking if I was beat he would come back at me. Slowing down was probably the more prudent move, as you said.

MRBAA · #8 07-31-2006, 10:45 AM

Well, it's all judgement. In general I like to isolate early with any semblance of a hand, since you're so likely to be well ahead of the hand range a nut is raising with. The hand in your post is a classic example. But if he's a LAG nut, I'll generally let him do the betting unless I improve -- basically I get the money in while I have the edge and try to minimize what goes in when may be behind. This is why maniacs can be tough to play against, though -- when you don't improve you can wind up having to call big bets on sixth and river. The most profitable kind of maniac is the one who will go passive when you show aggression and let you showdown cheaply when you don't improve, while paying you off when you do (plus the occaisonal FH v. Flush or whatever where your handreading skills enable you to get several extra bets against a maniac who doesn't realize what you have.)

Andy B · #9 08-01-2006, 02:49 AM

Definitely a play on third, and I would lean towards raising and then betting out on fourth. I'm checking the river, though.

cgrohman · #10 08-01-2006, 05:00 AM

I don't understand. That's right. I don't understand. This is a play that I have seem a lot recently as posted on 2 + 2. Calling on 3rd and 4th and then donking 5th.

I don't understand. Someone explain it to me using small small words. If you are going to play it like this, you must assume that you are ahead. In which case, why lead on 5th, why not check raise?

Me: I probably agree down the line with Andy. I play this hand by re-raising on 3rd and betting 4th. This allows me to get off the hand if I am facing resistance. Also, I don't bet 7th. I can't find a worse hand that can call here.