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  #31  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:21 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

[ QUOTE ]
chomsky says saigon was "jewel of the orient" or pearl or sometihng, well that part is history not his opinion, his opinion was that US wanted the good stuff in VN, the resouces and other stuff, and so US either wanted to control said resources, or deny them to others.

since US achieved goal 2 of denying them to others (ie, blew the hell out of the whole country), US won the war and achieved their objective.

[/ QUOTE ]

more proof the Chomsky is a blithering anti-American idiot.
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  #32  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:28 AM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

Which statement(s)?
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  #33  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:32 AM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

[ QUOTE ]
more proof the Chomsky is a blithering anti-American idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah alex jones thinks chomsky is scum too.

but I mean, the whole premise of vietnam really was not to let it "fall" to the communists (a la domino theory).

so if you can't prevent a communist takeover (best), then 2nd best by far is to level the place so the dirty commies have nothing to take over.

also in line with the domino theory is that other countries will think twice before going commie, because they will see that at best their revolution will win them a totally destroyed country.

now that's realpolitik.

also modern politicians have stated that vietnam was a good war precisely because it deterred other countries from going commie.
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  #34  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:35 AM
owsley owsley is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

What was there to win in Vietnam that was so important that we should have gone beyond the 60,000 americans killed and 150,000 wounded? Not to mention the millions of Vietnamese, if that even enters the mind of the war supporters. Communism was going to collapse on its own, us fighting wars like this only helped radical leaders stay in power because it gave them a legitimate scapegoat.
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:40 AM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

"modern politicians have stated that vietnam was a good war precisely because it deterred other countries from going commie."

Ridiculous. The fact that American leaders didn't understand that Vietnamese communism was related to Vietnamese issues doesn't mean other countries' leaders didn't get it. Which modern politicians have called Vietnam a "good war"? Seems to me politicains from all over the political specturm feel (for different reasons) it was a disaster.
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:43 AM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

[ QUOTE ]
"modern politicians have stated that vietnam was a good war precisely because it deterred other countries from going commie."

Ridiculous. The fact that American leaders didn't understand that Vietnamese communism was related to Vietnamese issues doesn't mean other countries' leaders didn't get it. Which modern politicians have called Vietnam a "good war"? Seems to me politicains from all over the political specturm feel (for different reasons) it was a disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, I should have said "modern day total scum p;oliticians".
people like newt gingrich. probably most high level right wing republicans.

I'm almost positive that piece of human garbage UN guy Bolton holds that view, to name another.
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:57 AM
The Truth The Truth is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Clearly, the war was unwinnable. Because the government we were supporting was not supported by the people. The revolt against Diem started in the south.

Clearly the American public supported the war. As late as February 1968 23% of Americans defined themselves as "doves" and 61% "hawks."

Clearly it was the lies of our government, as revealed in the Pentagon Papers, and its brutality, that turned public opinion. We dropped more bombs than were dropped in the history of the world on South Vietnam, the "country" we were supposed to be defending. I suppose had we taken General LeMay's advice, and bombed the Vienamese back to the stone age, we could have killed every man, woman and child in the country and thus "won" the war." Short of that, victory was impossible.

"Insanity" is not the right word to use for McCain's viewpoint. He is simply wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

and so are you. <font color="white"> and you like baseball! what a maroon </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate? I am genuinely interested.
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  #38  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:05 AM
PLOlover PLOlover is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
"modern politicians have stated that vietnam was a good war precisely because it deterred other countries from going commie."

Ridiculous. The fact that American leaders didn't understand that Vietnamese communism was related to Vietnamese issues doesn't mean other countries' leaders didn't get it. Which modern politicians have called Vietnam a "good war"? Seems to me politicains from all over the political specturm feel (for different reasons) it was a disaster.



sorry, I should have said "modern day total scum p;oliticians".
people like newt gingrich. probably most high level right wing republicans.

I'm almost positive that piece of human garbage UN guy Bolton holds that view, to name another.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol I type in

youtube vietnam good war

in google, and one of the first things is that crappy bill maher show where bill himself thinks the vietnam war was good in the sense that it stopped communism. what a tool.

another link where bush said in a press conference basically that we should have stayed in vietnam and won it or somethign like that.
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  #39  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:38 AM
ikestoys ikestoys is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
"modern politicians have stated that vietnam was a good war precisely because it deterred other countries from going commie."

Ridiculous. The fact that American leaders didn't understand that Vietnamese communism was related to Vietnamese issues doesn't mean other countries' leaders didn't get it. Which modern politicians have called Vietnam a "good war"? Seems to me politicains from all over the political specturm feel (for different reasons) it was a disaster.



sorry, I should have said "modern day total scum p;oliticians".
people like newt gingrich. probably most high level right wing republicans.

I'm almost positive that piece of human garbage UN guy Bolton holds that view, to name another.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol I type in

youtube vietnam good war

in google, and one of the first things is that crappy bill maher show where bill himself thinks the vietnam war was good in the sense that it stopped communism. what a tool.

another link where bush said in a press conference basically that we should have stayed in vietnam and won it or somethign like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

i believe the quote was driven by the millions of vietnamese and cambodians killed, but i'm not 100% sure...

leaving vietnam had some very severe negative consequences, and to ignore them or dismiss the people who point them out as idiots or insane illustrates either a large ignorance pertaining to the war or dishonesty.
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2007, 03:24 AM
illini43 illini43 is offline
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Default Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?

Do the consequences of leaving Vietnam outweigh consequences that would have happened to both Americans and Vietnamese if the US never involved itself in the first place? In other words, US does not intervene in Vietnam &gt; US intervening in Vietnam?


Pertaining to the current war, and I quote Ron Paul,

"The argument [for the continuation of the war] has been reduced to this: if we leave now, Iraq will be a mess, immplying the implausible, that if we stay, it won't be a mess."

In re: ikestoys last comment,

Leaving Vietnam had severe consequences, and it is important to point those out. However, more severe consequences would have resulted if the US stayed (more lives on both sides lost, further destruction of Vietnam geographically) rather than thrown in the towel on the whole situation.


The US has had a problem with "winning" WARS (not battles) since World War II and I believe this is a direct result of trying to play world police and mediator. Every major conflict we have been involved with since WWII (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq part I, Somalia, Kosovo, and others I am forgetting) has ended without a "victory" in the traditional sense of the word. The 'bad guy' was never truly defeated and these crises evolved and settled as a result of internal politics, not pressure from abroad.
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