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#2
12-21-2006, 06:33 AM
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Re: Ruling
[ QUOTE ]
Lets say someone bets 100 and the next guy raises all in for 300 3 more players call and then the guy who goes all in sees he has a 500 chip left. What happens? [/ QUOTE ] I think you need to clarify a bit, about exactly what happened. Player A bets "100" Then Player B says or does What? Does he push out all his chips? Does he say "all IN "or does he say "$300 ?" Where his chips miscounted or were there $200 hidden under his drink? 
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#3
12-21-2006, 10:42 AM
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Re: Ruling
[ QUOTE ]
Lets say someone bets 100 and the next guy raises all in for 300 3 more players call and then the guy who goes all in sees he has a 500 chip left. What happens? [/ QUOTE ] This really needs to be clarified. I am guessing this is a tournament not a live game because for the most part players in games were they can casually overlook a $500 chip don't post in this forum very much. If he jsut threw out the $300 in chips that is the bet and he is not all in. If the $500 chip was obscured from view (under the rail or under a napkin etc) and he declares himslef all-in the chip is removed from play and he is all-in. This is the closest written rule I could see (I didn't search, I am headed out the door for a meeting at work). This isn't in his pocket, but if it is hidden enough that nobody can see it we can count that the same as being in his pocket (or alternatively I woudl just tell them the chip is out of play for being hidden, I looked for a rule to post because I know this will not be popular on this board and there will be a number of posters that say that isn't fair). [ QUOTE ] All chips must be visibly displayed at all times. Players may not have tournament chips in their pockets at any time. A player who has chips in his pocket will forfeit the chips. The forfeited chips will be taken out of play from the tournament. [/ QUOTE ]
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#6
12-21-2006, 03:03 PM
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Re: Ruling
[ QUOTE ]
But the $500 could be bet on subsequent streets. (Flop, Turn River). [/ QUOTE ] nono. Not if the guy said "all-in" and put out $300 and kept the $500 back. The other folks who called did so with the expectation that $300 was all the all-in guy had. He doesn't get to pull that out now and say "oops". It's just gone...POOF.
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#7
12-21-2006, 03:46 PM
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Re: Ruling
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] But the $500 could be bet on subsequent streets. (Flop, Turn River). [/ QUOTE ] nono. Not if the guy said "all-in" and put out $300 and kept the $500 back. The other folks who called did so with the expectation that $300 was all the all-in guy had. He doesn't get to pull that out now and say "oops". It's just gone...POOF. [/ QUOTE ] While its true they thought they were calling the original players all-in of 300, The original post doesnt mention what each calling player has in front of them, butI suspect that its significantly more than 300 otherwise they would have shoved in (if I have 500, and I'm calling 300 why keep 200 in front of me cause that isnt push anybody out of a pot ?) So these guys are calling with full anticipation and knowlege that somebody or everybody behing them will call the 300. I dont see how the other players are harmed by allowing the all in guy to play after the flop as long as everybody knows where he stands. He might be doing an angle shoot stop and go, but it seems unlikely. All you are doing by keeping the 500 out is preventing the others from the opportunity to win it. if it were heads up it'd be different, because the other player is harmed by the potential of action on subsequent streets when none was anticipated but you have multiple parties in the hand thats not as much of an issue.
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#8
12-21-2006, 07:05 PM
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Re: Ruling
I wasn't going to reply in this thread until the OP cleared up his confusing post. But this prompted my premature entry:
[ QUOTE ] I dont see how the other players are harmed by allowing the all in guy to play after the flop as long as everybody knows where he stands. [/ QUOTE ] Are you kidding? It's very possible that a 300 bet is next to nothing, but an 800 bet is substantial. A lot of players called that 300, hoping to knock out a player, and they wouldn't have been as cavalier with those 300 chips, if they knew that the guy who was tied onto this pot was able to rebuy for 500 more IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HAND. [ QUOTE ] All you are doing by keeping the 500 out is preventing the others from the opportunity to win it. [/ QUOTE ] No, you're keeping the all-in player from adding to his stack in the middle of a hand. "All my chips are gone...PSYCHE! I bet again!" [ QUOTE ] if it were heads up it'd be different, [/ QUOTE ] I completely disagree.
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#9
12-21-2006, 11:53 PM
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Re: Ruling
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't going to reply in this thread until the OP cleared up his confusing post. But this prompted my premature entry: [ QUOTE ] I dont see how the other players are harmed by allowing the all in guy to play after the flop as long as everybody knows where he stands. [/ QUOTE ] Are you kidding? It's very possible that a 300 bet is next to nothing, but an 800 bet is substantial. A lot of players called that 300, hoping to knock out a player, and they wouldn't have been as cavalier with those 300 chips, if they knew that the guy who was tied onto this pot was able to rebuy for 500 more IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HAND. [ QUOTE ] All you are doing by keeping the 500 out is preventing the others from the opportunity to win it. [/ QUOTE ] No, you're keeping the all-in player from adding to his stack in the middle of a hand. "All my chips are gone...PSYCHE! I bet again!" [ QUOTE ] if it were heads up it'd be different, [/ QUOTE ] I completely disagree. [/ QUOTE ] Wow way to cherry pick my post to pieces. You took the conlusions and avoided the logic I used to support them completely. Let me try again. I'm assuming this is a cash game, Your ruling rewards the angle shooter/the guy making the mistaken bet, and punishes the other players by denying them the opportunity to get that $500. The guy that made the incorrect bet plays risk free to win 1200, while the other players have to decide how much of their stack they want to risk for the right to play against the all in guy for the real pot. These guys call the bet KNOWING that some one behind them MIGHT MOVE OVER THE TOP so they are expecting action after the flop. So why give the all in guy a free pass on having to make a descion for all his chip. Its in the best intrest of all the players that his money be live. Tell me why its not in the players best interest to have the 500 available to win. They weren't afraid of each others stacks when they called why be afraid of the 500 in front of the all in guy.
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#10
12-22-2006, 12:27 AM
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Re: Ruling
[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming this is a cash game, [/ QUOTE ] This is a very bad assumption. [ QUOTE ] So why give the all in guy a free pass on having to make a descion for all his chip. Its in the best intrest of all the players that his money be live. [/ QUOTE ] Something like this is much more likely to happen in a touranment. In a touranemtn he isnt' going to get to bet it. It is just gone (out of play, locked away with the other unused tournament chips). If this is a live game things are really going to depend on what size game this etc. Most likely the players will work it out if this is a live game that is large enough that a player can casually lose track of a $500 chip.
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