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#121
03-12-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The only group that has successfully persuaded large numbers of posters to their position, despite your claims of the virtual imposibility of this task (seemingly to justify not even allowing them to try)? [/ QUOTE ] Sorry to tell you, but the "persuasion" you imagine has been mostly a transient effect of your tactics. No permanent conversions, and many bad vibrations for this forum, have been the actual results. [/ QUOTE ] Uh, this is patently false Conversions to: -> AC: 17 -> Minarchism: 9 -> Liberal: 2 -> Conservative: 1 -> Something else: 3 The idea that this many people would just temporarily change their mind about something this important is just ridiculous. I guess I can't prove that to be the case because your claim is essentially unfalsifiable (maybe everyone will realize on their deathbed that their political views were wrong all along). Not to say that people don't change their minds multiple times about their political views but I think the numbers speak loudly about the quality of the arguments. The only bad vibrations for the forum are among people who don't like having their comfortable assumptions debated and are afraid they'll have to admit them to be wrong. [/ QUOTE ] Your pole is not up to the task. I don't consider it credible evidence given the proselytizing nature of AC hereabouts. My criticism was against certain pompous tactics, not AC in general (which makes a few good points). Puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over someone's nice thread is no way to win converts. I'd bet all my chips on that one. 
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#122
03-12-2007, 08:47 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The only group that has successfully persuaded large numbers of posters to their position, despite your claims of the virtual imposibility of this task (seemingly to justify not even allowing them to try)? [/ QUOTE ] Sorry to tell you, but the "persuasion" you imagine has been mostly a transient effect of your tactics. No permanent conversions, and many bad vibrations for this forum, have been the actual results. [/ QUOTE ] Uh, this is patently false Conversions to: -> AC: 17 -> Minarchism: 9 -> Liberal: 2 -> Conservative: 1 -> Something else: 3 The idea that this many people would just temporarily change their mind about something this important is just ridiculous. I guess I can't prove that to be the case because your claim is essentially unfalsifiable (maybe everyone will realize on their deathbed that their political views were wrong all along). Not to say that people don't change their minds multiple times about their political views but I think the numbers speak loudly about the quality of the arguments. The only bad vibrations for the forum are among people who don't like having their comfortable assumptions debated and are afraid they'll have to admit them to be wrong. [/ QUOTE ] Your pole is not up to the task. I don't consider it credible evidence given the proselytizing nature of AC hereabouts. My criticism was against certain pompous tactics, not AC in general (which makes a few good points). Puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over someone's nice thread is no way to win converts. I'd bet all my chips on that one. [/ QUOTE ] Lol, I'm told my pole is always up to the task [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I agree that those tactics that you describe are no way to win converts, but they must not be happening because people are convinced by the arguments in support of AC, far more than any other argument for any other viewpoint.
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#123
03-12-2007, 10:37 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: lol, i deleted this myself because i phear being banned [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ]  There you have it, folks. OK mods, you win. Plant the flag, declare victory.
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#124
03-12-2007, 10:39 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
Your pole is not up to the task. I don't consider it credible evidence given the proselytizing nature of AC hereabouts. [/ QUOTE ] What, people are lying about converting to ACism? ACers are bamboozling people into filling out web polls incorrectly? [ QUOTE ] My criticism was against certain pompous tactics, not AC in general (which makes a few good points). Puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over someone's nice thread is no way to win converts. I'd bet all my chips on that one. [/ QUOTE ] Argue against the tactics all you want. The results speak for themselves.
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#125
03-12-2007, 10:53 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Your pole is not up to the task. I don't consider it credible evidence given the proselytizing nature of AC hereabouts. [/ QUOTE ] What, people are lying about converting to ACism? ACers are bamboozling people into filling out web polls incorrectly? [ QUOTE ] My criticism was against certain pompous tactics, not AC in general (which makes a few good points). Puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over someone's nice thread is no way to win converts. I'd bet all my chips on that one. [/ QUOTE ] Argue against the tactics all you want. The results speak for themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Your tacit admission of active proselytization at the expense of forum decorum only fuels the fire of more active modship I would think. I am for a laissez-fair politics forum, I don't think your statement here is particularly helpful pvn.
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#126
03-12-2007, 11:04 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
What, people are lying about converting to ACism? ACers are bamboozling people into filling out web polls incorrectly? [/ QUOTE ] I think what he meant was that people that get frustrated with AC leave the politics forum, so any poll would be very biased. But it still doesnt deny the fact that AC has made many converts (myself included) over the past couple of years.
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#127
03-12-2007, 11:06 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Your pole is not up to the task. I don't consider it credible evidence given the proselytizing nature of AC hereabouts. [/ QUOTE ] What, people are lying about converting to ACism? ACers are bamboozling people into filling out web polls incorrectly? [ QUOTE ] My criticism was against certain pompous tactics, not AC in general (which makes a few good points). Puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over someone's nice thread is no way to win converts. I'd bet all my chips on that one. [/ QUOTE ] Argue against the tactics all you want. The results speak for themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Your tacit admission of active proselytization at the expense of forum decorum only fuels the fire of more active modship I would think. I am for a laissez-fair politics forum, I don't think your statement here is particularly helpful pvn. [/ QUOTE ] Tacit admission? He called the tactics "pompus". Earlier he claimed they were uneffective, and when presented with evidence to the contrary, switched to the pomposity attack. Is pomposity necesarily a violation of some undefined standard of decorum around here?
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#128
03-12-2007, 11:16 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Your pole is not up to the task. I don't consider it credible evidence given the proselytizing nature of AC hereabouts. [/ QUOTE ] What, people are lying about converting to ACism? ACers are bamboozling people into filling out web polls incorrectly? [ QUOTE ] My criticism was against certain pompous tactics, not AC in general (which makes a few good points). Puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over someone's nice thread is no way to win converts. I'd bet all my chips on that one. [/ QUOTE ] Argue against the tactics all you want. The results speak for themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Your tacit admission of active proselytization at the expense of forum decorum only fuels the fire of more active modship I would think. I am for a laissez-fair politics forum, I don't think your statement here is particularly helpful pvn. [/ QUOTE ] Tacit admission? He called the tactics "pompus". Earlier he claimed they were uneffective, and when presented with evidence to the contrary, switched to the pomposity attack. Is pomposity necesarily a violation of some undefined standard of decorum around here? [/ QUOTE ] His statement also included "puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over another's thread", which you did not see fit to refute.
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#129
03-12-2007, 11:26 PM
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Re: Hi
one thing to remember its very possible that the tactics used to convert people to a political philosophy may be effective but at the same time may hinder having a thriving and effective forum. the purpose of this forum isn't to provide ACist or anyone else a venue to convert people but instead to have the most widely used, active forum with a high level of discussion possible.
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#130
03-12-2007, 11:28 PM
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Re: Hi
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Your pole is not up to the task. I don't consider it credible evidence given the proselytizing nature of AC hereabouts. [/ QUOTE ] What, people are lying about converting to ACism? ACers are bamboozling people into filling out web polls incorrectly? [ QUOTE ] My criticism was against certain pompous tactics, not AC in general (which makes a few good points). Puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over someone's nice thread is no way to win converts. I'd bet all my chips on that one. [/ QUOTE ] Argue against the tactics all you want. The results speak for themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Your tacit admission of active proselytization at the expense of forum decorum only fuels the fire of more active modship I would think. I am for a laissez-fair politics forum, I don't think your statement here is particularly helpful pvn. [/ QUOTE ] Tacit admission? He called the tactics "pompus". Earlier he claimed they were uneffective, and when presented with evidence to the contrary, switched to the pomposity attack. Is pomposity necesarily a violation of some undefined standard of decorum around here? [/ QUOTE ] His statement also included "puffing up, insulting others and leaving your business all over another's thread", which you did not see fit to refute. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, sorry about that. I refute it. There, happy now? Iron has been dealing with personal attacks for quite a while now. There is a whole undercurrent of "Poltics is 'uncivil'" but I'm not seeing it. Is it a tea party? No. But puffing up is not uncivil. "leaving one's business all over another's thread" is meaningless. Unrelenting dissection of one's arguments is NOT uncivil. It is certainly offputting to some members of 2+2, but so are plenty of other forums.
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