not sure about this laydown - 11$ mtt

levAA · #1 07-15-2007, 10:59 AM

utg was tight-passive,
mp1 very loose (was in 60%) and passive

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t50/t100
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG raises to t200, hero calls t200 (pot was t350), UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls t200 (pot was t550), 5 folds, BB calls t100 (pot was t750).

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t850, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t200, hero calls t200 (pot was t1050), MP1 folds, BB calls t200 (pot was t1250).

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t1450, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, hero bets t800, BB calls t800 (pot was t2250), UTG folds.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t3050, 2 players)
BB bets t1400, hero folds.
Uncalled bets: t1400 returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: t3050

supair · #2 07-15-2007, 11:19 AM

hi mate, could do with stack sizes please, but we dont really cos just fold preflop.

levAA · #3 07-15-2007, 11:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hi mate, could do with stack sizes please, but we dont really cos just fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seat 1: ry4n8 ( 3,260 )
Seat 3: hero ( 5,270 )
Seat 5: DAVIDSYBRAND ( 830 )
Seat 6: ingeborg888 ( 4,940 )
Seat 7: Fatfrede ( 5,720 )
Seat 9: lokimoki ( 4,990 )
Seat 10: guegue7 ( 5,950 )
Seat 4: yanick24 ( 4,300 )
Seat 2: rupertbear12 ( 4,730 )
Seat 8: Faust22 ( 1,840 )

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sorry forgot that
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i don't want a fold preflop discussion here - not everyone has the same starting requirements.

just wanted to know something about the laydown

cheburashka · #4 07-15-2007, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hi mate, could do with stack sizes please, but we dont really cos just fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree. But as played, is UTG capable of sucking you in with a set or two pair, or is he just donking with a draw? If the former, shouldn't you just get out? If the latter, shouldn't you raise the flop to ~1000?

supair · #5 07-15-2007, 11:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]

i don't want a fold preflop discussion here - not everyone has the same starting requirements.

just wanted to know something about the laydown

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I imagine you dont want to know that Id raise the flop to 1k aswell, but i would, and if you just want to know about the river, Id call, unless hes a good player who could check KK/AQ on the turn.

levAA · #6 07-15-2007, 12:55 PM

ty

think the flop was the worst problem

Dunkman · #7 07-15-2007, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ty

think the flop was the worst problem

[/ QUOTE ]

No, PF was the worst problem. Calling here is quite a bad leak. It has nothing to do with style and everything to do with you spewing chips all over the table. Call the river, sure looks like a busted draw.

Also, I'd raise the flop to try and protect my vulnerable hand, but that's been discussed already.

JARID · #8 07-15-2007, 01:19 PM

fold pf, seriously.

River advice: You said the guy was loose/passive, so you should have a sense of whether he is capable of betting busted draws. If he is at all, you should call at like 3.5-1. Otherwise it looks like you're being taken to valuetown, so fold.

levAA · #9 07-15-2007, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, PF was the worst problem. Calling here is quite a bad leak. It has nothing to do with style and everything to do with you spewing chips all over the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

__________________________________________________ _______

i totally agree with that under normal conditions.
this one is from a extremly loose passive table.
5 of the 10 guys werde playing about 50-20-0 or similar on pah with many checkdowns postflop or fold to any aggression.
so i tried to get in the pot often and got some laydowns postflop.
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how do you play these passive tables?

Dunkman · #10 07-15-2007, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, PF was the worst problem. Calling here is quite a bad leak. It has nothing to do with style and everything to do with you spewing chips all over the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

__________________________________________________ _______

i totally agree with that under normal conditions.
this one is from a extremly loose passive table.
5 of the 10 guys werde playing about 50-20-0 or similar on pah with many checkdowns postflop or fold to any aggression.
so i tried to get in the pot often and got some laydowns postflop.
__________________________________________________ _______

how do you play these passive tables?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if they're calling like any and all raises, then my good hand will get paid off extremely well, so I don't have to speculate in marginal situations. If I can punish them with aggressive raises (they will limp and call minraises with all sorts of stuff, but if someone makes a big raise/reraise,) then that's the way to go. Also, I can speculate with a lot of hands (like this one) in position. But speculating here UTG+1 is just not a good play. If we hit a good hand it's harder to figure out where we stand, if we hit the best hand it's harder to get paid off, if no one hits it's harder to steal the pot, etc. Also, with 6-7 people left to act, there's a pretty decent chance that someone later on actually wakes up with a real hand and we have to dump ours.