Loose game

[onegymrat]

20/40 at the Mecca. Full game, usual mix of loose players, aggressive and passive.

HAND 1: Two limpers, very loose CO raises, even looser button calls, SB calls, I call in BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Limpers call of course. Six to the flop.
FLOP: 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Checked to the raiser who bets, button raises, SB folds. I 3-bet. Folded to raiser who thinks and calls two cold, button calls. Three to the turn.
TURN: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I bet, both call. Still three to the river.
RIVER: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I bet...

HAND 2: I open in MP with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Folded to button, new to table from a change, and plays laggish. He calls. Headsup.
FLOP: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Bet/call
TURN: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Bet/call
RIVER: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check...

[private joker]

Hand 1 is great. If your read on CO is LAGgy enough that KTo isn't in a bad/dominated spot, then you can call preflop. Flop 3-bet is very nice, and the turn and river bets are mandatory, especially the river because you won't even get raised by AT/JJ/QQ due to the possible flush. With 3-way action, a river raise won't ever be a bluff so you can safely fold if raised.

Hand 2 is also great. Checking the turn allows him to catch a free card for a straight/higher set if he doesn't have a spade. And he's the type to call with any A thinking you may not have the spade. But once he calls the turn, you shouldn't Clarkmeister the river because there's much less value there than when you check to induce a bluff. He's likely to put more money in here with a worse hand as the bettor than than as a caller. With a tighter/better opponent, it's a different story. With this guy, check-call is nice.

[mike l.]

"20/40 at the Mecca."

the where??

hand 1 standard, fold river if raised.

value bet river in hand 2, fold river if raised.

[mike l.]

"check to induce a bluff."

what is anyone, even a lag, "bluffing" with in hand 2 after he calls the turn? this one is a hand reading exercise. button might have a spade in which case a bet goes in every time. but another likely hand is an A or aces up that he's decided to stick it out with. betting the river makes those hands call, but those hands will almost always check when checked to.

[private joker]

Mike, you know the Commerce 20 game. If he called the turn with any pair, he takes your check as a sign that you have no spade, so he may try to push you off an Ace with a bet. I saw it done last night when a dude who flopped trips got scared of a flush on the river -- he checked, and his opponent bet one pair.

[Six_of_One]

I would have played both hands exactly the same way. Afterwards, I would have felt great about hand 1, and not-so-great about hand 2. My brain would have told me I should bet the river in hand 2, and I would have ignored it, as I have a nasty habit of doing.

[Gabe]

yeah, but the flush came on the river on that hand, right. maybe the villan on the OP might be bluffing on rare occasions, but not often enough to call, so the river bet is sort of a combo value-blocking bet.

[goofball]

hand 2 is a great spot to bet. If you check villian will be perfectly.

Hand 1 it sucks that J9 got there and I'm a little torn. The pot is big and while we're almost never getting raised by a worse hand it would suck to fold anyway. I think this one depends a lot on the player. Sopme people are paying off with tons of hands and rarely betting and we should betfold against them. Some players are relentless valuebettors and weshould checkcall against them. In the end I guess I can't say how I'd play this in a live game but online I'd bet.

[ssmallz]

hand 1: Perfectly played. If someones got an overpair, c'est la vie, fold to a raise

Hand 2: Bet the river. Viallians most likely hand is Ax that he just can't get away from. Let him do what he does best and call. Checking might be better if the flop was Q or K high

[vmacosta]

I'm posting blind here cuz I'm in a rush. Hand 1 is perfect.

In hand 2, I wouldn't bet the turn. If he has a big flush (or randomly feels like bluffing) I just don't really wanna pay 2 BB to try to spike a FH in such a small pot. So I'd check/call. If he bet, I'd then likely donk the river if I feel like I have good control over the opponent and c/f (or against bluffaholics c/c) otherwise.

If I bet the turn and was called I think its mandatory to bet the river, as there are many aces that wil pay off and you will only be raised by the nut flush or close to it.