$4/180 decisions

Wetdog · #1 09-19-2006, 01:50 AM

Pretty early in the donkament, so no reads.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t10/t20
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1800
UTG+1: t1060
MP1: t1310
MP2: t1930
Hero: t1430
CO: t1450
Button: t1860
SB: t1810
BB: t850

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls t20 (pot was t30), UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t20 (pot was t50), MP2 folds, Hero calls t20 (pot was t70), CO folds, Button raises to t120, SB calls t110 (pot was t210), BB calls t100 (pot was t320), UTG calls t100 (pot was t420), MP1 calls t100 (pot was t520), Hero calls t100 (pot was t620).

Standard, getting 6 to 1 after the raise?

Here's where it gets nuts:

*** FLOP *** [9h 8h Kc]
littlespidey: checks
lumpytee: checks
NTHEHOOD: checks
fireman1760: bets 300
Wetdog13: calls 300
HiroReborn: raises 1440 to 1740 and is all-in
littlespidey: folds
lumpytee: calls 730 and is all-in
NTHEHOOD: folds
fireman1760: folds
Wetdog13: calls 1010 and is all-in
HiroReborn said, "lol"

OK, I figured I was getting 4 to 1 with ~15 outs?

Am I donkey/genius?

Don't look below.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t2350, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: t3210, Sidepot 1: t730)

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t2350, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: t3210, Sidepot 1: t730)

Results:
Final pot: t2350
BB showed Ks 5s
Hero showed Th Jh

whose ivey: dam....
HiroReborn: simply horrible...
HiroReborn: LOL
HiroReborn: you're gonna win
whose ivey: j9?
Wetdog13: you wouldnt call with 15 outs getting 4:1?
HiroReborn: 9 spikes river
whose ivey: i was gonna call my a7cc
whose ivey: lol
HiroReborn: lolololol
HiroReborn: LOLOLOLOLLOL
Dealer: HiroReborn has a pair of Sixes
Dealer: littlespidey has two pair, Nines and Sixes
whose ivey: or the turn
HiroReborn: donk ***
HiroReborn [observer]: no ****ing reason to call
whose ivey: well i would have
HiroReborn [observer]: Ivey, congrats
whose ivey: ?
whose ivey: on what
HiroReborn [observer]: you now have just seen the luck I get. People making stupid ****ing calls
HiroReborn [observer]: and winning when hey're almost 4:1 underdogs
HiroReborn [observer]: have fun with the donks 

I SAID don't look.
Jebus, you have no discipline.

edit; converted

FortunaMaximus · #2 09-19-2006, 01:51 AM

Didn't need to. You catch?

Edit: Slight bit of advice: It's not a natural 15-outer. Still, I think it's a good call.

Wetdog · #3 09-19-2006, 02:11 AM

Well, I know it's not a full 15 outs (hence ~) but lets say 12 or 13.

Still; close? not even? dive in?

 Yes, I caught. 

edit: dang converter

FortunaMaximus · #4 09-19-2006, 02:19 AM

Good enough for me. Watch out for inflamed nits. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Thundercat32 · #5 09-19-2006, 08:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't need to. You catch?

Edit: Slight bit of advice: It's not a natural 15-outer. Still, I think it's a good call.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are the natural outs? I don't get that.

How can you even question if this is a call or not. This is as easy a call as calling an all in preflop with AA in a cash game.

You have an open ended straight flush draw that's like the best flop imaginable.

Jeff76 · #6 09-19-2006, 08:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How can you even question if this is a call or not.

[/ QUOTE ]I think he's questioning the call because villian went ballistic on him.

Supwithbates · #7 09-19-2006, 09:11 AM

I'm confused...
Turn: 2
River: 2
and then the showdown
Dealer: HiroReborn has a pair of Sixes
Dealer: littlespidey has two pair, Nines and Sixes

And littlespidey folded the flop...
What about the player that had K5?
How are either of these hands possible on a K9822 board?

Are you saying he pushed in with an underpair? Again, why is he calling you a donk if he pushes a family pot with an underpair?

Jeff76 · #8 09-19-2006, 09:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How are either of these hands possible on a K9822 board?

[/ QUOTE ]Yup, looks like we lost somthing in translation here. So really no idea what villan had here that he's complaining about, but it doesn't matter much. If he can't underestand the call that is good for us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Snarf · #9 09-19-2006, 01:00 PM

ummm

I think I read this somewhere...but if you're not comfortable getting $ in at this point with this hand - don't play TJs plz

w/the dead $ in the pot, this is an absolute no brainer, basically

hell, w/out dead $$$ in the pot - this is a no brainer 4 me

Jeff76 · #10 09-19-2006, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I read this somewhere...but if you're not comfortable getting $ in at this point with this hand - don't play TJs plz

[/ QUOTE ]This is correct, of course. Obviously this wasn't an instacall for OP, or if it was the needeling of villan caused him to question his play. For this reason it is good that he posted his hand so that he can be reassured that it was correct and that it was standard.

When I first started betting my draws more agressivly I had moments of doubt whether what I was doing was correct or not. I'd fear that I missed something important, miscounted my outs, or just wasn't playing correctly, especially if another opponent was ragging on me. Ragging doesn't mean much to me if I KNOW I played the hand correctly, but when learning something like playing big draws where it's not totally intuitive (like a draw being a favoirte to win againsts a made hand), doubts can creep in. If I'd never posted those hands (or read about others posting those hands, since I think my only post along these lines was in 7 card stud where I capped a big draw on 4th street), I'd have never understood big draws the way I do now, where I realize this is an insta-push (or insta-call) and I laugh and people who call me a donk for doing it.

The important thing is for the OP to understand why this is a no-brainer so tgat he can comfortable enough playing these hands in the future and he doesn't come back and question his play. The "why" in this case is that he is a slight favorite to win the hand over almost any made hand except a set, and even there he's not that big a dog. This isn't even a close decision with all of the money already in the pot, which is why this hand is so great to play multi-way in a big pot- which is also why the PF call was correct.