1/2NL live - KK river play

[Will_Son]

1/2 NL live at a full table.

- I'm UTG+1 with $650.
- MP's play has been a strange mix of extremely tight and erratic. He'd muck for two orbits and then raise 72o in EP. Then he'd muck for three orbits and raise 83o. He has $600. Really quiet. Think he might be drunk.
- LP is a middle-aged asian dude. He just sat down a few hands ago and he has $300.

I raise KK to $12. MP pauses for a second or two and calls. LP calls relatively quickly.

Flop is 56Q rainbow. I bet $30, MP calls and LP calls.

Turn is a 3 of diamonds putting two diamonds on board. I check, MP instabets $50, LP pauses and calls, I call.

River is a 2 of diamonds. I check, MP bets $100, and LP snap-calls. My play?

Comments about other streets? I think I maybe should have check-raised the turn but we were deep and I thought I'd try to keep the pot small for the river.

[Stash]

Don't check the turn, keep betting for value. As you checked and it bet and called, this is a great opportunity to check raise.

[jjshabado]

Yeah the turn you definitely needed to put money in. Betting is the best play. If you don't bet check-raising is a must here I think.

The river... you're getting 4.5:1 and its worth a call. We don't know anything about LP so we have to assume he's probably too loose so his call isn't that scary. It could easily be a Q. MP could easily be bluffing here, or value-betting a Q often enough to make calling correct. Especially if he's potentially erratic.

[Will_Son]

I was mainly worried about inflating the pot with a bet out of position and then getting raised off my hand.

Assuming I bet $80-$90 on the turn, am I folding to a raise?

After thinking about this hand after the session was over, I do think a check/raise is probably where I slipped up in the hand.

[xxrod17xx]

If you are checking the turn, the optimal move is a pot sized check raise IMO. But I think we would all agree that a decent sized value bet on the turn is best here.

I think you can bet here and fold to a raise, from LP, MP based on ur description prob still would be a fold but a difficult one.

[Albert Moulton]

If you check the turn, then pick an amount you'd be willing to call on the river, and then bet/fold that amount. XdXd has a backdoor flush. And any 4x hand, like 44 for MP, has a straight. I'd bet $75 at the river, and fold to anything more than a min-raise.

I think check/raising is bad on the turn because it pretty much guarentees that you'll play for stacks by the river if both players don't fold right away. If the idea of checking was for pot control, which isn't a bad thing given stack sizes and your bad position, then check/call the turn, and bet/fold the river. The flop is dry enough that one of the villain's might have easily called your cb with a set, for example, planning to get a bigger pot to bet/raise on the turn. So, I think it is better to play in a way that leaves you enough room to get away with some of your stack if you ran into a big hand.

Another line besides c/c or c/r the turn that leaves you some maneuver room would be to just fire again at the turn for $75 planning to fold to a raise from the deep stacked villain. If the turn then goes call/call, you can fire $75 at this river planning to fold to a push from the deep stack.

As played, I think you need to call the $100, but you are only going to win about 20% of the time. But you have to call since you're getting better than 4:1 on your money.