TT vs. WhoooooohKid

[apestyles]

I think the the few times that we get value vs. lower pairs on < T high flops do not make up for the times that we fold the best hand on unfavorable flops and/or make overcards fold on those flops. I also am playing alot of tables and prefer to make my life less complicated. Shooooooooove, and I really don't think there is much debate - he has 21 BBs wtf?

[baltostar]

But check out what happens if we tighten up the pre-flop shove calling range :

equity win tie pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 44.866% 43.76% 01.11% 39708900 1007822.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 55.134% 54.02% 01.11% 49027568 1007822.00 { 88+, AKs, AKo }

Hand 0: 40.173% 38.95% 01.22% 31348050 982766.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 59.827% 58.61% 01.22% 47164706 982766.00 { 99+, AKs, AKo }

Hand 0: 34.052% 32.69% 01.36% 22949166 956996.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 65.948% 64.58% 01.36% 45341306 956996.00 { TT+, AKs, AKo }

Hand 0: 33.654% 33.45% 00.20% 22911950 138060.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 66.346% 66.14% 00.20% 45304090 138060.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }


Unless you think villain thinks you have a wide shoving range I think calling is better than shoving (that is, assuming you're not 12-tabling; I can only 4-table).

[dmk]

holy [censored], we have less equity if his range is tighter?!?!?!

[baltostar]

[ QUOTE ]
holy [censored], we have less equity if his range is tighter?!?!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

The rate at which shove cEV falls as we incrementally tighten villain's calling range is kinda relevant to comparing two options to maximize cEV, wouldn't you agree ?

[apestyles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
holy [censored], we have less equity if his range is tighter?!?!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

The rate at which shove cEV falls as we incrementally tighten villain's calling range is kinda relevant to comparing two options to maximize cEV, wouldn't you agree ?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is irrelevant. He is not raise folding 88 and he is not open mucking 88. If you think otherwise you are saying bakes sucks at poker.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
It is irrelevant. He is not raise folding 88

[/ QUOTE ]

he might raise/fold 88, no?

[Todd Terry]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is irrelevant. He is not raise folding 88

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he might raise/fold 88, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, wouldn't calling a shove from the BB with 88 here be seriously -cEV unless you put the BB on some unrealistic superwide range shoving vs. an UTG raiser?

[eBo]

Baltostar- you are ignoring the % of the time Bakes folds if we shove.

Others- I shoved. He had KK. I won hand. I won tournament. Case closed.

[baltostar]

BB's shoving range would have to be way wide to make UTG 88 a +cEV call :

equity win tie pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 52.061% 51.43% 00.63% 120656958 1470325.00 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 47.939% 47.31% 00.63% 110988040 1470325.00 { 22+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

Hand 0: 51.485% 50.73% 00.76% 91202640 1362465.00 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 48.515% 47.76% 00.76% 85864350 1362465.00 { 22+, AQs+, AQo+ }

Hand 0: 49.222% 48.58% 00.64% 103989042 1364371.00 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 50.778% 50.14% 00.64% 107320216 1364371.00 { 44+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

Hand 0: 35.849% 34.95% 00.90% 41295900 1059450.00 { 8c8d }
Hand 1: 64.151% 63.25% 00.90% 74734176 1059450.00 { 88+, AQs+, AQo+ }

[eBo]

I'm 75% sure Bakes open folds 88 UTG in this situation, and I thought I had very little, if any, fold equity.