(Strategy) I Need Help Here

[QTip]

So, I open with 88 in say MP1, and get raised by a decent player otb. Our effective stacks start as say 110bb.

So, let's say we both have $220 in a 1/2 game.

I've openend for $7, and he's made it $21. It folds around to me.

I've read the 3-8 rule and stuff, but I'm trying to make it practical here, and I'm a bit slow at these things.

Can someone help me with some clarity please?

Thx.

[AlexB182]

Is the 3 - 8 rule the little sister of the 5 - 10 rule?

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the 3 - 8 rule the little sister of the 5 - 10 rule?

[/ QUOTE ]

The post I had read, it was tweaked some there, so yes.

[AlexB182]

Ok, lets say we apply the 3 - 8 rule (am I right in thinking is's pretty much dealing with the same thing than the 5 - 10 rule? call if less than 5%, fold if more than 10%, use judgement inbetween.)

In that case, the stats in your example show that you have to invest another 6.5 % of your stack (after you openend for seven) to see the flop. That would be at the higher limit of the 3 - 8 rule, a little too much for my liking.

BUT: I think there are more factors to deal with like:
- how are your chances of stacking villain if you hit
- what is villains PF raising range
- how good is your read on villain (for example, will you be able to see if he's just CBing when a low flop comes? Can he easily be bluffed?)

Do you see what I mean QTip? Would love to hear more comments on that topic!

[whorasaurus]

Isn't this always a call? Am I wrong, or is the chance your hand is best + set odds + 2:1 make this a call as played?

[Mike Kelley]

I fold because.

You are OOP and it makes it harder to pick this pot up if you call his raise.

You are getting about 15 to 1 implied odds if you think you can stack him everytime you hit, which is harder to do OOP. I think it depends on villains tendencies what to do in this spot. I have been folding more of these lately.

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I wrong, or is the chance your hand is best + set odds + 2:1 make this a call as played?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO it's a call against a lot of villians but not all.

The fact that your hand might be best is kinda trumped by the fact that you are at a positional disadvantage and could end up having to fold it anyways against an aggressive opponent.

IMO this call is good against:
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Tight players. (better implied odds)
OR
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Loose players who play pretty straight-forwardly postflop.

[Mike Kelley]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is the 3 - 8 rule the little sister of the 5 - 10 rule?

[/ QUOTE ]

The post I had read, it was tweaked some there, so yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

By Dan Bitel? I'm not a big fan of most of his strategy posts but, I think it was him that revised this and I think it's about right.

[AlexB182]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't this always a call? Am I wrong, or is the chance your hand is best + set odds + 2:1 make this a call as played?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree to that, it's very villain dependant. When you get raised by some 8/6 player behind you, I don't think your chances of having the best hand right now are too good for example.
When you don't think you have other ways of winning this hand as by flopping a set, it's really important to not call all PF raises from every villain and from every position but do do some reasoning first.

[diebitter]

The 5-10 rule is much more applicable when you have position. However, for mid-pairs, it isn't too bad to apply if you are playing for set value only.

I call for set value only, if I have reasonable grounds to think I'll get paid off, else fold. If there was 1 more caller and I close the action, I'd call.