AC in America

[ALawPoker]

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Well I'm an ACist and I don't believe that the market is omnipotent.

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You mean because you think a free market will work better than centralized planning you don't necessarily believe your side is omnipotent and perfect!?!?! WHOA. I actually have to take two deep breaths and think about that for a moment.

ENLIGHTENING.

[NeBlis]

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[ALawPoker]

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How powerful do you think the AC movement is in America (USA)? And do you see it as gaining popularity or losing it in the near future?

Also, how do these figures compare to the atheist movement in America? And is there a relationship between the two movements? If so, what is it?

If you don't know it's ok to answer what you think the figures are like.

Please also state roughly where you think you stand in all this (IE you're a AC and an atheist, an AC and a christian, a republican and christian, or what).

Also, if anyone cares to answer, what do these figures look like in other parts of the world?

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I don't really think of it as an "AC movement." I just think of it as progress. It isn't really the kind of thing that gains steam, then loses it, then gains it. Progress just happens at a natural pace. Things like wars and specific government programs just seem like big deals (which would lead one to believe the progress is a bumpy road) because we're so naturally tuned in to our perspective. You can think of our observations as a view of the trend itself under a microscope. It's just variance. But the "movement" itself just chugs along steadily.

Theism is a different trend, I would say. On one hand it's easier to dismiss, so on one level you'd think it will die faster. But I would guess that it will linger much longer. When the statism bias breaks it will be broken, and my guess is statists will be rare, especially since they'd be so stigmatized if they actually attempted to act on their beliefs. Religion doesn't really matter if you mind your own business. I think its fade will be much more gradual, especially since theist practices will probably keep changing in order to not become too archaic for anyone to swallow.

In terms of America compared to the rest of the world, I dunno. I'd think America stands the best chance to lead the way since we already pretend to like liberty and whatnot, but it's really impossible to say for sure. All I'm confident in is that humans in general will move in this direction.

I consider myself an ACist and I guess an atheist. I don't like labels in general though, and "atheist" is sort of questionable for me. I sort of think of Christianity (and I guess other religions if I knew anything about them) as an "attempt" to explain things we can't fathom. Sometimes it is nice, and I would say logical, to take comfort in the fact that there is so much you don't know. I.e., I don't believe I'm gonna go live in the clouds with God after I die, but I tend to think dying is probably pleasant and good for some reason that our condition can't comprehend. So in a way I don't really consider myself an "atheist" since I think it's worth recognizing that there is so much we don't know. It's just that I don't think it ever makes sense to actually act on anything that isn't based on tangible reason. So maybe agnostic is more accurate of what I am. I don't really know nor care much.

[tame_deuces]

Don't have much thoughts on a relationship between ACism and christianity, I guess there is one since christians have christian laws. I would find it natural that ACism has more

Around my parts ACism is very rare. Most anarchists I've met here are the socialist variant who oppose capitalism and private property rights.

My personal stance is that the AC principles are a viewpoint that gives grounds for important reflection on the state's role. My background gives me reason to believe their practical utility is currently slim. I am not an ACist, but AC debate has definitely altered my perception on the state. I am an atheist.

[bocablkr]

Don't know why you are mentioning both AC and Atheism together. Don't see any relationship.

I had never heard of AC until joining 2+2. Still have never met an ACer in person.

Atheists and non-believers probably make up about 10% of the US population. Many, many of my friends, co-workers and family are Atheists.

More than 50% of some European countries are Atheists or non-believers.

No comparison IMO.

[ALawPoker]

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No comparison IMO.

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Wait a few generations.

[elwoodblues]

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Don't know why you are mentioning both AC and Atheism together. Don't see any relationship.

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I think there is a relationship, though probably not a causal one. I'd be curious to see how many self-proclaimed ACists here are also atheists. I would guess somewhere around 90%.

Both AC and Atheism have a core belief that there is no higher authority than self.

[bocablkr]

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Don't know why you are mentioning both AC and Atheism together. Don't see any relationship.

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I think there is a relationship, though probably not a causal one. I'd be curious to see how many self-proclaimed ACists here are also atheists. I would guess somewhere around 90%.

Both AC and Atheism have a core belief that there is no higher authority than self.

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Don't know if that is true but certainly not in reverse. 90% of Atheists are not ACers.

[elwoodblues]

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Don't know why you are mentioning both AC and Atheism together. Don't see any relationship.

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I think there is a relationship, though probably not a causal one. I'd be curious to see how many self-proclaimed ACists here are also atheists. I would guess somewhere around 90%.

Both AC and Atheism have a core belief that there is no higher authority than self.

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Don't know if that is true but certainly not in reverse. 90% of Atheists are not ACers.

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Agree.

[ALawPoker]

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Both AC and Atheism have a core belief that there is no higher authority than self.

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This statement demonstrates an odd misconception of the AC line of reasoning. It isn't like "there is no higher authority than thy self" therefore "AC is what I believe in."

There is plenty of "authority" in the absence of government. It's just that the authority is a more effective form. When I'm in an airplane I yield to the captain's authority. When I'm in a classroom I yield to the teacher's authority. When I'm in my neighbors house I yield to his authority. Etc. It's just that it's clear to us that the result is better when you hold an unwavering respect for property rights, and let property ownership determine authority, than when you vote on how and when and to what degree.

In a loosely similar vein, since our position is one of analytical assessment and not whimsical, feel good regurgitations of social cues that don't necessarily make objective sense, we're also the type of people who are way less likely to act according to the advice from some book or character when that advice defies conventional reason.