270 Days Pretty Solid -- no run on the banks necessary

[Hock_]

[Same caveat as my "Summary post" -- this should not be considered legal advice]

Having re-read the statute with a clearer head, I am now much more comfortable in predicting that financial institutions will NOT do anything to stop transactions until the Fed has promulgated its regs. The Act does not place any obligations on financial institutions other than those regs; the prohibition is on the parties "accepting" the transactions -- i.e., the sites. Moreover, the limitation on liability for financial institutions in s. 5364(d) is in part (subpart 3) premised on following the regs, so financial institutions could actually be exposing themselves to liability if they block "clean" transactions before the regs are finalized.

And I think it will likely take at least 270 days for regs to get done.

Bottom line: No run on the banks necessary; we probably all have at least 270 days, at least as far as moving money is concerned.

[fsuplayer]

god i hope so.

[NFuego20]

Let me ask this question....for purposes of being able to continue to play online (I don't question the fact that this law will greatly hurt the profitability and number of people playing the game), should we at some point actually take additional efforts now to get funds into Neteller or other similar accounts? I have read in a few places that according to some people's opinion, depositing will be the issue, but we should still be able to withdraw. This is obviously open to debate and my guess is it will take time to find out. However, to prevent a worst case scenario where Neteller stops accepting transfers in the near future, should we get the money in there now for purposes of sustaining play in the future?

I'd be curious to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

[BillJames]

[ QUOTE ]
And I think it will likely take at least 270 days for regs to get done.

Bottom line: No run on the banks necessary; we probably all have at least 270 days, at least as far as moving money is concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just add that the bill clearly states that the regulations must be in place NO MORE than 270 days after enactment of the bill (i.e. 270 days from the date the President signs the bill, which will be in no more than 10 days from now). The relevant text is on page 231 of the conference report text, beginning on line 7 ("Before the end of the 270 day period beginning on the date of the enactment of this subchapter...").

This clarification is important, because the 270 days are a MAXIMUM time frame, so it is inaccurate to say that there are "at least" 270 days left. From my understanding, however, regulations such as these would take at least 100 days to determine.

Otherwise, I agree with you that Neteller, etc. is unlikely to do anything until the regulations are in place. It's just a matter of being on top of where the process is going forward.

[Hock_]

[ QUOTE ]
I would just add that the bill clearly states that the regulations must be in place NO MORE than 270 days after enactment of the bill (i.e. 270 days from the date the President signs the bill, which will be in no more than 10 days from now). The relevant text is on page 231 of the conference report text, beginning on line 7 ("Before the end of the 270 day period beginning on the date of the enactment of this subchapter...").

This clarification is important, because the 270 days are a MAXIMUM time frame, so it is inaccurate to say that there are "at least" 270 days left. From my understanding, however, regulations such as these would take at least 100 days to determine.

Otherwise, I agree with you that Neteller, etc. is unlikely to do anything until the regulations are in place. It's just a matter of being on top of where the process is going forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's what the statute says, but as I pointed out in another threa it's not that uncommon for agencies to blow through those statutory deadlines (waddaya gonna do, sue 'em?). And in this instance to draft proposed rules, accept comments (usually interested parties get at least 60 days for a major rule), consider them, and pass a final rule is going to take WAY more than 100 days, probably more than 270 IMO.

[MicroBob]

It would not surprise me if some banks decided, on their own, to stop accepting EFT transactions from neteller.

And neteller has to decide if they want to continue to do business with U.S. citizens (they already voluntarily stopped all transactions to Maryland residents).

Otherwise, I certainly hope and believe (from my very amateurish viewpoint) that you are correct that a run on the banks or neteller isn't necessary.

[MannyIsGod]

[ QUOTE ]
It would not surprise me if some banks decided, on their own, to stop accepting EFT transactions from neteller.

And neteller has to decide if they want to continue to do business with U.S. citizens (they already voluntarily stopped all transactions to Maryland residents).

Otherwise, I certainly hope and believe (from my very amateurish viewpoint) that you are correct that a run on the banks or neteller isn't necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would imagine their cooperation with Maryland to be much different than any cooperation with this. I'm not saying they won't do it, but its one thing to do it while they're threatening to kill off your business and quite another to do it knowing it will kill off your business.

Neteller has nothing to lose any longer is my basic point. The compliance with Maryland may have been part of an attempt to head off this legislation, but not that this legislation is actually here what incentive does Neteller have to comply with the United States government?

[BillJames]

NFuego20,

As a lawyer, though not one with any expertise in banking regulations, my reading of the bill suggests that the regulations will mean everything in this area -- and thus your question is impossible to answer at this point.

However, this is the scenario I THINK will happen:

Neteller does nothing regarding its American customers until the regulations come out. The regulations will have specifications about the types of codes, etc. that must accompany "gambling transactions" to specify that they are indeed "gambling transactions".

Neteller, because it is a legit business that doesn't want to be an international "rogue", will not ban Americans entirely, but will simply stop transactions to and from Party, Stars, etc. Thus, I don't believe any money in Neteller is threatened either now or after the regs are passed. However, if the regs are indeed as complicated and difficult to enforce as the banks will claim, then it is possible that Neteller wil just shut off Americans because it doesn't want the added headache of dealing with these regulations. That will be a business decision that is impossible to determine at this point.

Finally, all of this means that simply depositing into Neteller will be meaningless, because Neteller will not process deposits into gaming sites anyway, even if they still allow Americans for general transactions. If this happens, it is quite possible that some other Neteller-esque site will pop up that will process Americans' transactions, but that is, of course, very speculative at this point.

In short -- my opinion is that your money in Neteller is not threatened right now, but don't expect to get around anything by simply making deposits now.

[MannyIsGod]

[ QUOTE ]
NFuego20,

As a lawyer, though not one with any expertise in banking regulations, my reading of the bill suggests that the regulations will mean everything in this area -- and thus your question is impossible to answer at this point.

However, this is the scenario I THINK will happen:

Neteller does nothing regarding its American customers until the regulations come out. The regulations will have specifications about the types of codes, etc. that must accompany "gambling transactions" to specify that they are indeed "gambling transactions".

Neteller, because it is a legit business that doesn't want to be an international "rogue", will not ban Americans entirely, but will simply stop transactions to and from Party, Stars, etc. Thus, I don't believe any money in Neteller is threatened either now or after the regs are passed. However, if the regs are indeed as complicated and difficult to enforce as the banks will claim, then it is possible that Neteller wil just shut off Americans because it doesn't want the added headache of dealing with these regulations. That will be a business decision that is impossible to determine at this point.

Finally, all of this means that simply depositing into Neteller will be meaningless, because Neteller will not process deposits into gaming sites anyway, even if they still allow Americans for general transactions. If this happens, it is quite possible that some other Neteller-esque site will pop up that will process Americans' transactions, but that is, of course, very speculative at this point.

In short -- my opinion is that your money in Neteller is not threatened right now, but don't expect to get around anything by simply making deposits now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill with your legal view in mind, at this point why would Neteller cooperate with the legislation? Would being considered a "rouge" company here in the United States really be of top concern from them?

[chicagoY]

I think the big thing is site perception and if they fear this will cause the arrest in the US of their executives then it would give them cause, in their own minds, to give us the heave ho early.