Don't tap the Tank -- How do you handle this.

[KenProspero]

6-12 Canterbury

I'm in seat 5. Seat 7 isn't playing ATC, but he's pretty darn close. Truly playing 85% of his cards. Since he's on a rush and seems to be sucking out every time, the table sees most of the cards he's playing.

Pretty soon, seat four starts ripping into him -- "How can you call with that crap .... Don't you know anything about poker, etc." I try to quietly tell him, let it go, but he is having none of it.

45 minutes (and three racks of chips) later Seat 7 gets up and leaves. At which point three other players rip into seat 4, explaining that when someone is betting like that, the last thing you want to do is mock him. That if Seat 7 is going to play those hands, we want to keep him here as long as possible, and that his actions probably drove the guy from the table.

Anyway -- the question before the floor, what do you do when someone at the table is berating someone you want to keep around?

[Twistofsin]

Try to engage the fish in friendly conversation and keep him happy.

[StepBangin]

Talk about how you play those hands all the time and win, and let the fish know that you "Cant win if you dont play."

When he loses a pot with 3rd pair no kicker, shake your head in disgust while saying "oww, tough break" and talk to him for 15 minutes about his bad beat and how you cant believe his hand didnt hold up.

Do the same for missed straight/flush draws

[pa3lsvt]

Had a similar situation at 1/2NL at Harrah's AC last weekend. I'm in the 2 seat, the 3 and 5 were good players and we had quietly discussed how bad the 10 seat was. Same deal - playing 85% of hands, calling PF raises every time he limped, and was a regular on the express bus to value town. We (me, 3, and 5) were in a contest to see who could iso-raise him more frequently. He needed to be reminded of the action EVERY time it was his turn to act, but we tolerated the slow play due to his ATM tendencies. He already put $900 on the table in the last 2 hours and had more to go. LPP all the way.

Suddenly the table changed. 95 year old guy sits in the 4 seat. Our end of the table was super polite to him, but he was really slow and decrepit. He's Old Decrepit Man (ODM).

Then the 3 seat leaves 15 minutes later and is replaced by a degenerate who talks about how good he is and how high stakes he usually plays, but is of course short stacking at lowest stakes no limit. We'll call him Super Douche (SD).

Anyway, SD sees a hand where ODM chases me down with K9 vs. my AQ on a AK489 no draw board and I bet all the way. I give him a "NH, sir" and move on to the next hand.

SD has already been annoying me with his nonsense, but he starts berating ODM with the standard "you suck, how can you play that way, K9, blah blah." I turn to SD and tell him to "lighten up." He immediately goes into the "are you going to make me?" (Objective 1 complete: take the bullseye off the fish.) I tell him that "I'm not going to make you do anything, I'm just asking you to lighten up. We have a fun table here."

He lets it go, then starts back up on the next hand when LPP asks "what's the bet, who raised?" again. I keep quiet but I notice the dealer give him a dirty look. Dealer pushes out, then 10 minutes later he goes on a break. I immediately look for the floor (dunno her name, but she doesn't take any crap from anyone, I like) and let her know that SD is wrecking the table. She tells me that she knows and is going to have a conversation with him when he gets back; dealer must have said something to her when he pushed out. (Objective 2 complete: Talk to the floor away from the game.)

When he gets back, he's good for 10 minutes then goes into the routine again, but worse. Starts fake delaying his action, pretending he's thinking. Berates LPP every time he shows down a hand (most were winning at this point with runner-runners or three outing two pair on the end). Tells a young asian kid to "go back to Canal Street" and then makes a *very* subtle jab at the gay fella in the 9 seat that I only think gay dude and myself caught. He finally busts his short stack thankfully and storms off ranting about how awful 1/2 players are.

He's still at the brush when the Poker Room Supervisor (Jim) wanders over to us and I stop him to tell him about SD. "The most obnoxious person I've ever seen in a poker room." He tells me not to worry, as "he's not allowed to play here any more." (Objective 3 complete: Show the table that I'm on their side and trying to look out for them.)

Apparently, he gets 86'ed regularly but always comes back. Even the floor said she wished she'd never see him again and he'd be perma-barred if it was her choice. I think I handled it as best I could as it was my first time dealing with that type of behavior at a casino ring game.

[pfapfap]

The problem with trying to get someone not to tap the tank is that by doing so, you are tapping another tank. I've tried to talk people out of repeatedly question someone's play, and usually get responses like, "I'm just curious how he can play those card," etc. The idea of wanting players to play bad cards and chase bad draws is lost on them.

I agree with trying to indirectly address it, sticking up for the player, diverting attention, etc. Maybe start playing more boisterously, spread feelings of goodwill, etc.

[KenProspero]

Nice post, thanks.

[SNOWBALL]

it depends what the table is like. A lot of the time it just doesn't matter. I've sat at 6/12 LHE tables full 100% losing players some being super fishy others just very mediocre, and they would berate eachother every few hands.

The action would go like this "How can you play that trash!?" says fish one, and then fish one cold calls a raise with j7o next hand.

It's somewhat rare IMO for a fish to actually leave or significantly tighten up after getting berated. Some of them probably get a kick out of dishing out some viscious beats, and maybe berating them causes them to try for more longshots.

The problem comes when a new player is there and wants to be in a social environment, but is made to feel uncomfortable or feel like he doesn't fit in. This happens frquently enough that berating fish has a longterm negative affect on game quality.

The easiest way to deal with it is to say "I thought he played it fine" however this might lead to a long strategy discussion which could make a new player feel even more uncomfortable.

[SNOWBALL]

pa3lsvt,

expert play all-around. Good story too. I like your writing.

[octaveshift]

I generally take the route of quietly saying "You played it fine. He's just pissed off because you have his chips." to the fish if he's seated nearby.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Tell him in no uncertain terms to stfu, quit berating other players now or you'll get the floor over here now. Everyone is allowed to play their hands however they want without comments from idiots who are too damn stupid to keep their big mouths shut when there are fish in the aquarium.

If that doesn't work, kick him in the nuts.

Al