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#61
10-22-2007, 03:51 PM
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Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
Mason,
Nobody was looking for a positive statement from you. What I was hoping for was a statement from you condemning Absolute for the systematic cheating of poker players orchestrated by members of their management/ownership team, followed by repeated denials and lies in an attempt to cover up the situation in the face of overwhelming and damning evidence. This is an opportunity for someone who makes their money from this community to stand up and demand a higher set of standards of integrity, openness, and accountability from these unregulated, offshore poker sites. You are in a position to do so, and imo have a degree of responsibility to the players who look to you as a leading authority figure in this industry - and pay your bills. The way the wind is blowing now, this looks like it will get swept under the rug and very shortly everything will revert to business as usual until the next scandal. You can choose to play an active part in breaking that cycle. I would love to see you make a public statement recommending that players avoid Absolute Poker until all the questions surrounding this are answered and they admit to what they did and put in place independently verifiable measures to prevent future offenses. 
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#62
10-22-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
[ QUOTE ]
Then why don't you make a statement. [/ QUOTE ] Mason, I dont think its our place as moderators to make a statement on behalf of 2p2 publishing. Mostly all of us have made personal statements regarding the matter, but not as representatives of this company. I agree with El D that you certainly have the respect and knowledge within the community to help change this cycle and help improve the situation.
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#64
10-22-2007, 06:10 PM
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Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
Sometimes I think you have very little understanding of how the real world works. If I make the type of staement you ask for and it causes AP to go down, lots of people may lose their money by not being able to withdraw it, all the people who work at AP are jobless, and the chances of punishing those who are responsible for these problems goes to zero. This is the type of stuff I also need to think about.
In addition, we have had private communication with AP and may have a little leverage because of that. If I was to do what you ask for, then that is gone. But more important, and this is something it appears you have missed completely, is that this problem is bigger than AP. So by doing what you request, we may damage many other sites. Do you think we should do that? But there's another thing here, and it's something I still don't understand completely. Two Plus Two, and any official position it takes, may now be the most powerful in the whole industry. We need to use that power wisely and carefully. So the end result is that any official statement from Two Plus Two, and/or myself, is simply premature. Best wishes, Mason
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#65
10-22-2007, 06:48 PM
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Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
Mason,
I'm fully aware of how the real world works, in business contexts that are orders of magnitude greater than the poker world in which you exist. I've been directly responsible for over $100 million in software company fundraising. This year companies I've been involved with in an advisory role have sold for over $300M. Relatively small scale in my field, but through this involvement, I am intimately familiar with all of the different interests involved and how various investors, bankers, analysts and companies all depend on each other to keep the machine rolling. When the companies are solid, this is very positive and leads to creation of great value. When there are shady dealings, it leads to a propped up deck of cards. The dot-com boom and bust illustrated how these things can have major impact on the market in both directions. The less regulated and more private the businesses involved, the more important it is for key players to play an advocacy role for those involved. Your public silence on this matter speaks volumes. As for AP going down, you vastly overestimate the reach and power of 2+2 if you think making a statement as a publisher of a lot of top poker books is likely to cause "AP to go down." There's a realistic chance that they and others might actually do more than give lip service to making real changes, though. As for hurting other sites in the short term, if a couple of steps backwards is what it takes to legitimize the industry in a way that has never occurred before, then I think that's a great tradeoff. Of course, as I do indeed understand how the real world works, your stance is exactly what I expected.
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#66
10-22-2007, 06:50 PM
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Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I think you have very little understanding of how the real world works. If I make the type of staement you ask for and it causes AP to go down, lots of people may lose their money by not being able to withdraw it, all the people who work at AP are jobless, and the chances of punishing those who are responsible for these problems goes to zero. This is the type of stuff I also need to think about. In addition, we have had private communication with AP and may have a little leverage because of that. If I was to do what you ask for, then that is gone. But more important, and this is something it appears you have missed completely, is that this problem is bigger than AP. So by doing what you request, we may damage many other sites. Do you think we should do that? But there's another thing here, and it's something I still don't understand completely. Two Plus Two, and any official position it takes, may now be the most powerful in the whole industry. We need to use that power wisely and carefully. So the end result is that any official statement from Two Plus Two, and/or myself, is simply premature. Best wishes, Mason [/ QUOTE ] Mason, I don't wish to get in the middle of this really. But I don't understand why the people at AP losing their jobs should be a concern of yours. Their company directly stole millions of dollars from it's customers, they quite honestly deserve what they get. Of course it sucks that some innocent people are going to lose their jobs, but shouldn't your primary concern be the 2p2'rs who lost thousands of dollars, rather than the people at AP who have no relation/loyalty to you?
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#67
10-22-2007, 06:54 PM
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Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
[ QUOTE ]
Mason, Can you at the very least pressure cardplayer behind the scenes to run the story? [/ QUOTE ] I think its likely that Cardplayer will eventually run a story, they ran a story about Void/WCCP; I can't imagine they would let themselves be caught out in the cold when Poker News and the other competitors will be reporting this. Time is on our side, Mason's strategy of letting the forum and it's users speak for themselves is wise. On a related note I don't think the poker community as a whole feels Cardplayer is the news authority like it did pre-internet boom. 2+2 has far more eyeballs that Cardplayer does, that thread has been viewed by more people over the past weekend than cardplayer's circulation [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Also the MSNBC story should help get the word out.
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#69
10-22-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: Will 2+2 have a response or position on the AP fiasco?
[ QUOTE ]
TT, "that thread has been viewed by more people over the past weekend than cardplayer's circulation" Are you high? [/ QUOTE ] no, but your obviously in one of your argumentative moods today. Take your meds dude.
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