LAG in, TAG out

[Rookcifer]

Anyone have any tips on how to properly play LAG? TAG doesn't seem to work very well at the micro stakes -- you need to have at least 40% VPIP to be successful. Sitting around waiting on premium hands is too predictable and makes no money. Everyone just folds whenever a TAG player raises pre-flop. Further, if you do manage to get someone in the pot, you never know what to put them on since they will play any two cards, and often your AK or JJ or KQ will lose. I lost a monster pot when my trip 10's got beat by a guy holding an 8-5 who made a straight. Just one example, it happens all too often. I see my stack dwindle while 50-75% VPIP players stacks get huge. Obviously their style is superior (at least at micro stakes).

It's become apparent to me that the cards really don't matter as much as being able to bluff successfully, know when to fold your trash (after you play it on the flop), and catch a little luck. The old adage of "play the player not the cards" seems glaringly evident.

Are there any good books that elaborate on the LAG style and do not teach the old fashioned "starting hand chart" super tight style? I know most of the books written by the pros teach TAG, but I find it funny when they deviate greatly from this school of thought when they play televised poker. Obviously they know better than to practice what they preach. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[RapidEvolution]

What level of micro stakes are you playing? I ran 13/8 at 10NL for a while and was beating it pretty well. When I got bored, I'd multitable so I only went in with solid hands. A lot of players at uNL aren't paying attention to how many hands you're playing.

[gregorio]

what stakes are you playing, and 6max or FR? TAG def works best at 25NL-50NL. I assume at 2NL-10NL also. Bluffing does not generally work in micros. If everyone else is loose, you shoould be playing tighter both pre and post flop. LAG works when people are too tight. At micros, people are way too loose. Your advantage comes from playing tighter. That way, when you are in a hand, you will always have more than your share of equity at the start since they are playing crap like 8-5 and you are not. You shold be ecstatic to have someone who is playing these cards for a raise PF.

You should be raising any hand in which you are the first to enter the pot. YOu should be raising limpers almost everytime you want to play a hand and have position. This will cut down the field, so it will be less likely people suck out on you. If you want to play more hands, play them from the Button and one off the button, and play them for a raise. Do not open your range from early position.

There is no way a VPIP of 40 is optimal at micros. You can prolly beat the game even at 17/15 VPIP/PFR or so, and anything over 25VPIP is not going to work.

If you want to read about LAG style, try here, but it is a recipe for disaster at 10NL and under
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=5659562
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=5910509

[Rookcifer]

5NL and 10NL. I get crushed at 5NL but am ahead in 10NL. These levels are exponentially tougher than 2NL.

[gregorio]

6max or full ring?

What are your stats? If 6-max, is there a big gap between your VPIP and PFR. 22/17 is TAG, 22/7 is just tight passive. TAG, there shouldn't be more than 5% difference between VPIP and PFR or you are too passive.

If fullring, I have no clue, but check out the fullring stickie, and maybe watch some of the videos listed there
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD

[kayaker]

There is one rather simple, and yet very profitable, way to combat TOO MUCH respect. Raise more hands PF. But do it smartly.

Here's an example:
I start at a table and don't get a hand for a couple of rounds. Not all of the players notice, but some do. When I finally get a good hand, I raise from EP and everyone folds. A couple of hands later, I raise from MP and everyone folds. Woo hoo, I won the blinds, maybe a limp or two. But I'm struggling to stay close to even.

I go card dead for a while and this reinforces the belief that I only come in for premium hands. Unfortunately, I'm not GETTING premium hands. Wait until you're in LP - not the button, that's too obvious - and only have one or two limpers and raise. It doesn't matter what you have, raise. Chances are decent that you'll get one caller, MAYBE two. More likely they'll all fold.

Do this again on the next round, again from LP, but not the button. If you find that you've done this three or four times and they STILL fold, try it from the button.

By now the others will be getting the idea. If you get called by one player and they check the flop, bet out. If they bet the flop, fold unless you've hit a monster (or monster draw and are priced in).

OK, now you have done two things: You've made some of your blinds back, maybe even a small profit and you've planted the idea that you don't JUST play premium hands. As soon as you get more than one caller or you have to show down your rags, you tighten back up. The point is to make them stop thinking you're as tight as you really are.

Sure, you'll lose a bet or two on the one hand this way, but you're much more likely to get callers when you DO have a hand.


Alternatively, if you're not ready to try this more aggressive approach, you could start limping with some suited connectors like 87 or J9. And you can do it all from LP, as very few players at micro know enough about playing position to figure out that this the only time you loosen up.

[Rookcifer]

Full ring. 23/10/1.09 are my stats. 6-max would be even worse for me than full ring since LAG is a must to win there.

[RapidEvolution]

The biggest weapon at your disposal at these levels is value-betting. You can play pretty profitably by only playing quality hands and value-betting them postflop. People will call you down with ALL KINDS OF JUNK. Just make sure you're bankrolled for your level, as suckouts WILL happen, but in the long run, they'll happen less often than the times you win. Trust me, I'm going through suckout hell at NL25 and if I wasn't rolled for it, I'd probably be broke . lol

[Nightlight87]

[ QUOTE ]

It's become apparent to me that the cards really don't matter as much as being able to bluff successfully, know when to fold your trash (after you play it on the flop), and catch a little luck. The old adage of "play the player not the cards" seems glaringly evident.


[/ QUOTE ]

First you say you should loosen up because people call down with any two cards, and then you say you should bluff more? No! Bluff a lot less, raise premium hands and play them well post flop. If you are sticking to premium hands at these levels and are losing. You are either on a downswing or you aren't playing the hands very well after the flop.

[thoman8r]

[ QUOTE ]
Full ring. 23/10/1.09 are my stats. 6-max would be even worse for me than full ring since LAG is a must to win there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't correct. I'd venture to say the vast majority of winning regulars at micros play a tag game. I'm a 14 PTBB / 100 winner at 10NL and I play 22/16/2.5.

What a previous poster said is correct - your opponents are playing weak hands, therefore when you play tighter than them you are almost always going to be ahead of their pre-flop range when you raise first-in.

I'm not a FR player but a VPIP of 23 looks high for a game where you should be even tighter than at 6-max. And a VPIP of 40% is going to hemorrhage cash at these levels. Even at high stakes, it takes an expert post-flop player to succeed with a VPIP that high.

Also, your aggression factor is really low, which usually means you are calling too much or not c-betting enough. What is your W$SD percentage?