2+2 Ask the PPA

[Tuff_Fish]

What he said..

[coachkf]

"Some of you really don't seem to have a grasp of the situation. It is precisely Mason and 2p2 that does not have a vested interest in any particular business model of poker, whether it be B&M or online."

2p2 certainly does have an interest in the success of online poker. Check the banner ads displayed on this site and email them for rates. They are making a killing from online poker. They don't just sell strategy books. ;]

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]

Are my posts really that unclear?
D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all! Generally, they are very well-written.

But since you ask, I'll make one constructive comment: You have a serious spelling problem. It really stands out, because your writing is quite solid otherwise.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Just...wow. D$D had an appointment to speak with John Pappas and decided to prepare by asking us about our concerns so he could speak intelligently about the concerns of the poker community. He also was trying to help us out. If this isn't needed, what happened to "no, but thanks anyway"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't much like the idea of someone speaking on behalf of the poker community I belong to when I have no idea who they are or what their agenda is. This guy has been fishy from the day he joined the message board. I feel like I've hired the Unknown Lawyer to go advocate on my behalf.

When someone says "I won't tell you who I am, but trust me, I have your best interests at heart," aren't you at least a little suspicious? Here's a guy who showed up out of the blue with a post about how he just happens to know the PPA has its heart in the right place, and it's only gotten stranger from there. What's his game, do you reckon?

[frommagio]

Hey, does anybody remember when the PPA tapped a few folks from 2+2 to be state representatives or some such? Did they just fall into the PPA black hole, where no communications escape? I don't recall hearing another word after the initial eagerness.

[LeapFrog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Just...wow. D$D had an appointment to speak with John Pappas and decided to prepare by asking us about our concerns so he could speak intelligently about the concerns of the poker community. He also was trying to help us out. If this isn't needed, what happened to "no, but thanks anyway"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't much like the idea of someone speaking on behalf of the poker community I belong to when I have no idea who they are or what their agenda is. This guy has been fishy from the day he joined the message board. I feel like I've hired the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer to go advocate on my behalf.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it does seem a bit weird. However, what is the harm in him fielding some questions? Any communication with the PPA is most likely better then none.

In theory the PPA should be reading 2+2 but who knows what scrub they have assigned to that task. This at least is a chance (assuming D$D is legit but if not a minor 'waste' of time) to whisper in the ear of one of the players.

frommagio, I thought a 2+2er posted about becoming a state rep but I don't remember who it was.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Any communication with the PPA is most likely better then none.

[/ QUOTE ]


That's not necessarily true. A convo done through middlemen that mostly avoids substantive issues while focusing only on PR benefits none of us here. Especially when it allows the PPA to very easily avoid tough questions and be able to backtrack on commitments by saying the middleman screwed up their message. The internet basically allows people to be in the same room, and using a middleman is like asking someone to talk to someone else for you, when that someone else is standing right there and could speak for himself.

This doesn't mean it isn't productive to have someone like the Engineer work with the PPA on grassroots efforts though. In fact what is very needed is for Engineer's efforts to be communicated to the broader membership of the PPA who are mostly average joe & jane poker players and who don't frequent the 2p2 forums *or the PPA website*. Thus the PPA should be using the Engineer to draft action plans to contact legislators and businesses (in re to WTO stuff) and get the total membership involved in same via weekly email campaigns.

And if Mr. Pappas does decide to come here and talk to us, he is only going to talk about such political tactics and won't be able, as an employee of the board, to discuss issues like the makeup of that board or why it refuses to subscribe to the broader agenda for poker that most of us have (i.e. not tied only to certain business models).

If PPA really gives a rat's ass about engaging the largest poker community in the world here, they will not only send Mr. Pappas to discuss grassroots political tactics, but also a board member to discuss the other issues. As I mentioned earlier, Greg (Fossilman) Raymer, a long time 2p2'er sits on the PPA board. Why can't he come here and talk to us as well?

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Its so staggering what we could do with resources and lists.
If there are 2k users logged into 2p2 when Mason put his number up, there are over 100k US players at poker tables(tourney, cash, and FREE). If we could get on the sites and send political alerts. If we had people's AIMs, MSN, and Yahoos getting the ongoing activities. We could have almost daily things and lobbying. Ask people to sign up for an hour or two a week, and have the PPA coordinate things. Four or five people at the handle-end of a group as big as we can assemble can accomplish a lot. Monday 2-4, call the NFL. Tuesday 11-1, the DNC. Tuesday 3-5 is the House Financial Services. THats all feasible with the money and info they have.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi L_Lurker:

Again our position towards the PPA is neutral. If it ever moves to positive, then perhaps we could be of help in some of these areas. But there are those transparence issues, board make-up issues, and a bunch of other issues that need to be resolved, at least to some degree, before we can move to positive.

And as long as I have everyone's attention, as long as these issues are outstanding, I don't believe a PPA representative will come on here because he'll be quizzed to no end in this regard. It's also the reason I'm against someone representing www.twoplustwo.com with questions for the PPA. Once we move to positive territory, this might be an option.

Finally, I do want to note that Two Plus Two, like the PPA, wants to see Internet poker available for everyone. In fact our recent article, "Poker is Good for You", which appears in the current issue of our Internet Magazine, is now also on the PPA site.

Best wishes,
Mason

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Just...wow. D$D had an appointment to speak with John Pappas and decided to prepare by asking us about our concerns so he could speak intelligently about the concerns of the poker community. He also was trying to help us out. If this isn't needed, what happened to "no, but thanks anyway"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't much like the idea of someone speaking on behalf of the poker community I belong to when I have no idea who they are or what their agenda is. This guy has been fishy from the day he joined the message board. I feel like I've hired the Unknown Lawyer to go advocate on my behalf.

When someone says "I won't tell you who I am, but trust me, I have your best interests at heart," aren't you at least a little suspicious? Here's a guy who showed up out of the blue with a post about how he just happens to know the PPA has its heart in the right place, and it's only gotten stranger from there. What's his game, do you reckon?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I spoke to John Pappas on Tue. afternoon, the subject of D$D actually came up. D$D is what he says....he's someone experienced at grassroots lobbying who has a meeting with John to discuss this. Exactly as he said.

I reread the OP and couldn't see where D$D was making himself the 2p2 spokesman. He merely offered to bring some questions to John Pappas, with whom he legitimately has a meeting scheduled to legitimately discuss how to move our agenda forward. I guess I don't see how having him show up empty handed helps us in any way.

As for John, he will be posting here soon. I'm personally glad he waited a few weeks to do so. I honestly didn't want to hear any more PPA happy spin about grand plans for the future. I want to hear what they are doing and when they're doing it. John has taken some time to lay out concrete actions, so his initial communications to us should be more substantive. I hope we'll all hear him out and decide from there.

Cheers.

[MiltonFriedman]

I have exchanged some messages with D$D and generally believe he is what his posts describe, a volunteer, with DC experience, who is interested in helping out poker ... and has contacted the PPA and this forum to do so.

If the end result of this sturm & drang thread is the PPA coming in and making substantive posts on 2+2 , great. This is progressing somewhat.

(I am not making light of BluffThis' complaint about Card Player interests co-opting the PPA, I have no doubt that is so to date. However, I feel politics does make for unsavory necessary alliances at times. To the extent that the PPA can put a favorable ball into play on behalf of poker players, we can benefit. However, just lending bodies/numbers and donating money will not result in a favorable direction.)