new more damning absolute evidence

[Alobar]

ban plz

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read this whole thread to see if this has been noticed before but why doesn't Potripper show up on the flop action of this particular hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you look at the Excel file, you can see that Absolute only gave a time stamp in minutes rather than to the second. This is a simple mistake for a programmer to make, and other major sites have done this too, at least for a while. Most of the time, the actions within each minute were given in chronological order, but that was not the case several times such as in this hand.

[ QUOTE ]

POKERME420 - Posts small blind $10
DZ00NUTS - Posts big blind $20
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BIGREDAK86 [Kc Qh]
Dealt to JOSIAHW [7d Js]
Dealt to POTRIPPER [10c 5d]
Dealt to POTR0AST [10s 2s]
Dealt to POKERME420 [6h Qs]
Dealt to DZ00NUTS [7c Jh]
Dealt to KOOLKEITH13 [10d 6c]
Dealt to SCARFACE_79 [9d Ad]
KOOLKEITH13 - Folds
SCARFACE_79 - Raises $50 to $50
BIGREDAK86 - Raises $180 to $180
JOSIAHW - Folds
POTRIPPER - Calls $180


[/ QUOTE ]
POTRIPPER has position.

[ QUOTE ]
POTR0AST - Folds
POKERME420 - Folds
DZ00NUTS - Folds
SCARFACE_79 - Calls $130
*** FLOP *** [4h 9s Ah]
SCARFACE_79 - Checks
BIGREDAK86 - Checks
*** TURN *** [4h 9s Ah] [2h]
POTRIPPER - Checks


[/ QUOTE ]
The last two lines happened in the same minute, and should have been reversed. POTRIPPER checked behind on the flop when Scarface flopped top 2, and then the turn was dealt. Since checking behind closed the betting, the turn could be dealt immediately, so there was less delay than between other actions, which increases the chance that the actions were not recorded in order.

[ QUOTE ]

SCARFACE_79 - Bets $280
BIGREDAK86 - Folds
POTRIPPER - Folds
SCARFACE_79 - returned ($280) : not called

[/ QUOTE ]

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
If you look at the Excel file, you can see that Absolute only gave a time stamp in minutes rather than to the second.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually incorrect. The excel file did contain the timestamp down to the second, it's just a matter of formatting.

The hands were distributed with actions out of order and when someone fixed some of the hands, they didn't not correct everything perfectly.

[ibluffoldladies]

It's time to release this guys name and email.

[ammbo]

A few quick notes after reading through this whole thread. One caveat, this does contain some speculation.

1) The fact that all hole cards are in the HH file is not surprising, I am sure all poker sites have DBs like this. They log all HHs to send back out to players and it would be a trivial thing to combine each players' HH into one master history. The key is that this data is not available in real time, it is compiled after the fact and used primarily to detect collusion. The only mistake here is that they sent out the wrong version, possibly a rookie mistake by a new CS rep.

2) If they sent an Excel file that contained a copy/paste from a DB query, it would automatically truncate at the max lines for that version of Excel. The file would not contain more data that it can hold but the person who sent it would not necessarily know it was truncated. This is even more likely if the person also did not know the proper place to retrieve hand histories from their internal systems.

3) The name in the meta data is from the "owner" of that installation of Office. This could be the accused rapist as well. It is possible he was accused, fled the country, and was hired to run networks because he is A) skilled and B) speaks flawless English. However, this information/speculation is irrelevant, it only indicates who the IT people are, not necessarily the programmers/hackers. This point can safely be ignored.

4) The user ID is a gigantic clue that it is in fact a super user account. Whether this account was under the control of a current/former employee, management, or outside hackers is unknown but also irrelevant. My conjecture is that such an account may have been created in order to watch tables where people had been accused of colluding. This can be a well-intentioned attempt to create a way to police tables and catch cheaters. I do not think this is a stretch to suggest.

5) Absolute's silence on and lack of action on the issue is scary. This leaves open the possibility that they will not deactivate the superuser functionality. Because it appears to be an observer that can see the cards and not the playing account, it could play any account at any time. It would be trivial to commandeer another account and use 363 to feed hole cards to it. This and other threads have educated the cheaters quite nicely in how not to get caught.

6) If they do get smarter about cheating, the fact that ikestoys and others plan to keep coming back will only embolden them. They can play various accounts and be smarter about the cheating. If they shave only 1 BB/100 from ikestoys' 7 BB/100 win rate, he will still come back because he is profitable but not as profitable as he used to be. (sorry for using you as an example, ike, but you were the only one who posted usable stats for illustrative purposes.)

7) If the cheaters are indeed using a superuser account to view the hole cards and then playing on commandeered accounts, the actual user who created the Potripper account may have no idea his account was abused. The MSN address further suggests this, especially if it looks like a name and not a random throw-away email created for this purpose. It may be useful to email this person and ask if they were aware that their account was still in action. My guess is that the answer will be no.

This is just my 2 cents as someone who has been following this situation closely and actually reading all of the threads.

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol, this is exactly why absolute can basically tell everyone to go [censored] off and not have to admit to anything. Even the people who get totally ripped off will still play there.

You guys might as well stop wasting your energy with this campaign. If the victims will still play at a sight run by incompetent, lying, shady, bastards, then why would you think anyone else will stop?

You already know absolute wont admit to it. You could have a video of the cheater in action sitting next to his lapop that displays all the hole cards, while wearing his absolute security badge, and absolute would deny it, and it wouldnt matter cuz the suckers would STILL keep playing there.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft


basically I felt bad about ikestoys being stolen money from when that happened but now that I see he continues to play there and basically support the site through paying rake I just think that some people have very little spine/principles

[/ QUOTE ]

1.)Last two weeks

2.)My contribution to rake is negligible in the big picture
3.)The goal of this isn't to put Abso out of business. The goal is to get money back to the disaffected players and create a more secure environment for online poker. You seemingly want to close my cash cow, which is strange considering you didn't lose a dime in this situation and its not want most of the other big losers in this situation want.

[admiralfluff]

[ QUOTE ]
1) The fact that all hole cards are in the HH file is not surprising, I am sure all poker sites have DBs like this. They log all HHs to send back out to players and it would be a trivial thing to combine each players' HH into one master history. The key is that this data is not available in real time, it is compiled after the fact and used primarily to detect collusion. The only mistake here is that they sent out the wrong version, possibly a rookie mistake by a new CS rep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been tracking this silently, but this caught my eye. Does this mean that the Excel file marco received is not the standard type of file received when a tourney history is requested? If so, it is exceedingly unlikely that this is a mistake. Out of the thousands of times people request tourney histories for their own purposes, the one time absolute accidently sends the 'god' version if the history, is when a super-user owned the tourney? It is far more likely that this confidential info was intentionally released, or that there is some other causative relationship between these clearly correlated unlikely events.

[ammbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) The fact that all hole cards are in the HH file is not surprising, I am sure all poker sites have DBs like this. They log all HHs to send back out to players and it would be a trivial thing to combine each players' HH into one master history. The key is that this data is not available in real time, it is compiled after the fact and used primarily to detect collusion. The only mistake here is that they sent out the wrong version, possibly a rookie mistake by a new CS rep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been tracking this silently, but this caught my eye. Does this mean that the Excel file marco received is not the standard type of file received when a tourney history is requested? If so, it is exceedingly unlikely that this is a mistake. Out of the thousands of times people request tourney histories for their own purposes, the one time absolute accidently sends the 'god' version if the history, is when a super-user owned the tourney? It is far more likely that this confidential info was intentionally released, or that there is some other causative relationship between these clearly correlated unlikely events.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your scenario is indeed considerably more likely. Someone with a conscience at Absolute likely sent the wrong file intentionally. The rookie CS rep may explain the few prior incidents of these raw HH logs getting emailed out.

My point was that full hand history data should be stored by the poker sites. Without it, investigating collusion would be either impossible or an arduous task. Therefore the fact that such a version exists should not be considered as damning evidence.

[NLfool]

[ QUOTE ]
A few quick notes after reading through this whole thread. One caveat, this does contain some speculation.

1) The fact that all hole cards are in the HH file is not surprising, I am sure all poker sites have DBs like this. They log all HHs to send back out to players and it would be a trivial thing to combine each players' HH into one master history. The key is that this data is not available in real time, it is compiled after the fact and used primarily to detect collusion. The only mistake here is that they sent out the wrong version, possibly a rookie mistake by a new CS rep.

2) If they sent an Excel file that contained a copy/paste from a DB query, it would automatically truncate at the max lines for that version of Excel. The file would not contain more data that it can hold but the person who sent it would not necessarily know it was truncated. This is even more likely if the person also did not know the proper place to retrieve hand histories from their internal systems.

3) The name in the meta data is from the "owner" of that installation of Office. This could be the accused rapist as well. It is possible he was accused, fled the country, and was hired to run networks because he is A) skilled and B) speaks flawless English. However, this information/speculation is irrelevant, it only indicates who the IT people are, not necessarily the programmers/hackers. This point can safely be ignored.

4) The user ID is a gigantic clue that it is in fact a super user account. Whether this account was under the control of a current/former employee, management, or outside hackers is unknown but also irrelevant. My conjecture is that such an account may have been created in order to watch tables where people had been accused of colluding. This can be a well-intentioned attempt to create a way to police tables and catch cheaters. I do not think this is a stretch to suggest.

5) Absolute's silence on and lack of action on the issue is scary. This leaves open the possibility that they will not deactivate the superuser functionality. Because it appears to be an observer that can see the cards and not the playing account, it could play any account at any time. It would be trivial to commandeer another account and use 363 to feed hole cards to it. This and other threads have educated the cheaters quite nicely in how not to get caught.

6) If they do get smarter about cheating, the fact that ikestoys and others plan to keep coming back will only embolden them. They can play various accounts and be smarter about the cheating. If they shave only 1 BB/100 from ikestoys' 7 BB/100 win rate, he will still come back because he is profitable but not as profitable as he used to be. (sorry for using you as an example, ike, but you were the only one who posted usable stats for illustrative purposes.)

7) If the cheaters are indeed using a superuser account to view the hole cards and then playing on commandeered accounts, the actual user who created the Potripper account may have no idea his account was abused. The MSN address further suggests this, especially if it looks like a name and not a random throw-away email created for this purpose. It may be useful to email this person and ask if they were aware that their account was still in action. My guess is that the answer will be no.

This is just my 2 cents as someone who has been following this situation closely and actually reading all of the threads.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with almost everything you say here but again I have to point out why when 100k+ (prob over 200k) was dumped to another person Absolute did not read flag it or it did not trigger some audit.

That type of activity doesn't go unnoticed unless a few people inside do something. As JohnnyBax questioned how many runners did they get for these higher guaranteed tourneys. Was there so much overlay that they had to try and win it themselves to recoup?

[rothko]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) The fact that all hole cards are in the HH file is not surprising, I am sure all poker sites have DBs like this. They log all HHs to send back out to players and it would be a trivial thing to combine each players' HH into one master history. The key is that this data is not available in real time, it is compiled after the fact and used primarily to detect collusion. The only mistake here is that they sent out the wrong version, possibly a rookie mistake by a new CS rep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been tracking this silently, but this caught my eye. Does this mean that the Excel file marco received is not the standard type of file received when a tourney history is requested? If so, it is exceedingly unlikely that this is a mistake. Out of the thousands of times people request tourney histories for their own purposes, the one time absolute accidently sends the 'god' version if the history, is when a super-user owned the tourney? It is far more likely that this confidential info was intentionally released, or that there is some other causative relationship between these clearly correlated unlikely events.

[/ QUOTE ]

this has happened before, more than once.