Where does TV poker coveage ad money go?

[bogey1]

This has puzzled me for quite some time and I've never seen any of the major players in poker (Hellmuth, Negraneu, Bruson, etc) talk about it much.

Most sporting events, the prize money is created or inflated by sponsors. I'm sure tennis/golf players pay an entry fee, but it's no where near the sum of the actual prize money distributed. The major team sports (football/basketball/baseball) make huge $$ of TV viewing rights.

Where does all the TV viewing $$ for poker go? It seems bizarre the WSOP or WPT gets mostly unlimited (often intrusive) access to tables during games to film, and can rake in advertising dollars for covering the events, but the players who are providing the entertainment don't see any of the money provided.

Hell, I know many top tennis players get paid an appearance fee just to compete in some of the lesser tournaments.

I'm genuinely curious how this works in poker. As far as I know, barring the occasional invitational tournament, all poker tourney's prize money is still strictly from player buy-ins.

[resboard]

From what i know the money goes to the owners of the WSOP or the WPT. How could you possibly say "unlimited (often intrusive) access to tables". IT IS THEIR EVENT lol. They are not forcing you to play there. You are joining their event and they have rules that you agree to abide by.

Now onto the money thing again. Why should the TV ad money be given to the players? The players could care less about your entertainment, they are their to win money.

If you owned WSOP would you say hey guys why don't you just take my money i work for free?

Think about it, they have to pay the casino for the time and space (NOT CHEAP), pay people to run the tournament, pay the people to tape it, pay the play by play guys etc.

The owners are doing nothing wrong.

[samsdmf]

A lot of the made for TV donkaments have big add-ons for free qualifiers, the casino/organisers take it for the big ones.
I think the above poster is wrong and there I dont think he realizes that the rake is what the players pay for time and space in the casinos, IMO the TV money should go into prizefunds (or deducted from the fee)- do you think tiger woods cares less about entertainment? you do see him paying entry fees

[Humble Pie]

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IMO the TV money should go into prizefunds

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Unfortunately, your oppinion doesn't matter. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[resboard]

Regardless of the rake. How can you possibly say that the money should go back. You obviously don't think like a business man. Its your event you are entilted to the money.

regarding Tiger Woods. Tiger woods has endorsements and different things. But i assure you that most players could careless. Do you think tiger would really care if you didn't watch? The only thing that would happen is less people to buy his clubs. He would still win and he'd still make money.

You buy into the tournamnent and KNOW THIS AHEAD OF TIME. They are not cheating you. Its a business, they are in it to make money.

[JackWhite]

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Do you think tiger would really care if you didn't watch? The only thing that would happen is less people to buy his clubs. He would still win and he'd still make money.


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Yes, Tiger Woods would certainly care if people didn't watch. He'd lose large amounts of money without the revenues generated by television.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

resboard, what are you talking about? Nobody but you mentioned anything about cheating. And nobody said anybody was doing anything wrong, they just said where is the money going, and why aren't the players getting any of it?

The events are not televised by the casinos, they are televised by ESPN, WPT, etc. These people who make the tv shows don't pay anything to run the tournament, rent the space, or the stuff like that. The tv people only pay the camera crews and such, the direct costs of filming and televising the show.

Then, in most and possibly all cases, the casino pays money to the production company. For sure the WPT host casinos and Harrahs pay money to the WPT and ESPN, respectively. Then, the production companies make more money by selling ads.

It is, of course, true, that nobody is forcing anybody to play in these events, so the production companies and casinos are not stealing, per se. However, that doesn't mean that a more equitable split of the money wouldn't see some of the TV profits going to the players, it just means that the players don't have any power or ability, at least for now, to force such an equitable split. If we are ever able to effectively unionize, or some such arrangement, then we would have such power, and as a group we would make more money. It was very hard for each of the different major pro sports to unionize, and it will be infinitely harder for poker pros to ever do so, as the public is much less able to distinguish the talent level of a top pro from that of a second tier pro when watching them on tv. When it comes to football pros or the like, it is apparent to fans that they are watching a top pro, or not.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[UATrewqaz]

In my opnion the relationship of

Poker Players <- Casino <- TV Network

is very similiar to

Football Player <- NFL <- TV Network

and it would seem in both cases the players are entitled to a share of the revenue.

The difference is that sports teams have unions and are highly organized to make demands.

Even if every "name" player boycotted events there would be plenty of nobodies still buying in. And the tv/poker press would simply begin making new "names"

[resboard]

Ok i really think some of you are not understanding this.

WSOP is a business. They are in the business of running Poker tournaments. WSOP Rents the casino. When you buy in you are paying a fee to the house and you are contributing to the prize pool. We all agree on that.

What happens from there. Well WSOP takes its videos and says who wants to pay me for these, well ESPN currently does. ESPN buys the rights to the WSOP recordings. So now WSOP is done. They made money from the rake to cover the cost of running the tournament, and they made their profit selling their tapes. Don't we agree businesses deserve to make money?

Now ESPN takes their new tapes and puts them on television. They make their money from selling ads. The money from these ads goes to covering the money they spent on the tapes from WSOP, and anything on top is profit.

Where in this line does anyone think money should be put back into the pool?


On a side note, down with unions. Unions destory most businesses.

BTW Greg I am fan.

[UATrewqaz]

They aren't putting any money towards the players because they don't have to, their businesses are functioning at a high level of profitability without having to do so.

The NFL could have a rule stating "all players make 100K a year" but such would cripple the sport. All the best players would boycott, they would see the billions generated and demand a larger cut. The public would lose interest in the NFL because they want to see the best players and a high level of competition. Although the NFL could find replacement players (and has before) people wouldn't like it nearly as much and profits would dry up.

Long story short, sports leagues give players a cut of the tv money because they have to.

I don't blame poker organizations (WSOP/WPT) for not giving money to the players. They simply don't have to right now. The players aren't organized enough to demand it and the public doesn't care about the "stars" as much as they do with sports.

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Unions destory most businesses

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Unions can be very corrupt and can do alot of stupid stuff, however they also can achieve positive things too.